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Wisdens Top 10 Bowlers


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#1 raidrboy

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Posted 18 December 2002 - 07:13 AM

Hi Guys,
Has anybody got any comments regarding the cricket bible naming of Sri Lankan bowler Muthiah Muralidaran as the worlds best bowler. It might pay the people who made the decision to have taken a couple of facts on board. Firstly as an ex first grade umpire I certainly believe that his action is more than suspect. Secondly I suggest they look at what percentage of wickets were taken against the stronger test playing nations. I throw this open to debate. Lets hear some thoughts. And just for the recors I believe Richard Hadlee is the number 1.



#2 duke750

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Posted 18 December 2002 - 08:02 PM

Ok then raidrboy, here's my 2 cents' worth...

No, I don't think mooroodeelooroolan is the best (yet). Yes, I agree that he has taken a lot of easy wickets on the sub-continent.

Richard Hadlee was a great bowler (9 wickets and a catch in one innings against Oz ain't bad!).

If you consider the wickets Lillee took during World Series Cricket, then he would have an amazing record.

You can't ignore Kapil Dev, especially when you consider the number of wickets he has taken in India.

Warnie's record is also outstanding, almost 500 test wickets over a very long time.

Don't forget W.I's Walsh - he currently holds the record for the number of wickets taken.

If I had to choose the top 3, then I would say Lillee, Warne and Dev (probably in that order).

Of course, all of this ignores the fact that modern test cricketers play many more tests than their predecessors, so the efforts of Benaud, Lindwall, Grimmett etc are often overlooked.



#3 hind0

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Posted 18 December 2002 - 08:44 PM

Too many wickets on the sub-continent and not enough elsewhere means that no matter how many wickets MM finally ends up with, his achievements will always be suspect.

For me, it should not be so much about stats but which bowlers were game winners, feared by the opposition and left a lasting impact on the game.

With this in mind, I would have included the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Denis Lillee, Richard Hadlee, Shane Warne, and maybe even Shoaib Ahktar. There's probably a couple left off the list but I'll add an update if I can think of them.



#4 raidrboy

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Posted 18 December 2002 - 10:00 PM

Hi Fellas,
I am glad to know that I am not the only one who doubts the Wisdom of Wisdens choice. I certainly believe had it not been for the intervention of WSC that Dennis Lillie would have probably gone very close to #1.
Just for curiositys sake my top 5 in order would have been;
1. Richard Hadlee
2. Shane Warne.
3. Courtney Walsh.
4. Dennis Lillie.
5. Ian Botham (Surprise selection hey). He turned many a test match on its head, in a tie with Wasim Akram.

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I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them.

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#5 miike

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Posted 19 December 2002 - 03:54 AM

The "best ever" can't be judged on number of wickets alone. Walsh and Dev were OK but they played in a million tests. I'd sooner face Walsh than Ambrose for a start but Curtley had a bad run of injuries and personal stuff (I think ) For sheer bowling talent Walsh wouldn't get close to Ambrose, Marshall, Holding and Roberts.
As for Kapil Dev, I used to breathe a sigh of relief when he was bowling because he hardly struck fear into the batsmen and if he was on it meant those wiley spinners weren't.
Hadlee better than Lillee? ...no way.
Warne , best spinner I've ever seen, but a real goose.
Best ever in my opinion (been watching cricket since early 70's) are;
Marshall
Lillee
Warne
Holding
Garner



#6 jeanmc

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Posted 19 December 2002 - 09:14 AM

of all the legends mentions like lillee, hadlee etc, I wont know too much about it, as I only picked the game up 12 yrs ago. but stats are stats, so they will always go down as legends of the game. :wink:

I do have a problem with 'rubber-arm' as being the no1 bowler in the world. as most have pointed out, all his haul outside the subcontitent isn't impressive, and I would dare say that most of his wickets are against batsman with weak techniques anyway. :wink:

bias aside, I would have to say Walsh is the no1 bowler, not becoz of his record wickets (which I'm sure warne will overtake soon), but becoz his wicket haul was during an era when the WI absolutely dominated the cricket scene, but more importantly, he was able to get the wickets when the WI team absolutely sucked...IMO... biggrin.gif

Cheers,
Mw.



#7 damo

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Posted 21 December 2002 - 06:39 AM

I guess the only real problem with the top ten is the fact that Warne is in it - Sure he has taken plenty of wickets - many from tailend batting bunnies and many as a result of some very dubious lbw decisions - I think quite a few umpires think he is a better bowler than he says he is because they always tend to give him the benefit of a very wide ranging doubt - [pitched ouside leg - oh well it probably would have got him out - never mind the rules etc etc}
Damo



#8 judgesmails

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Posted 21 December 2002 - 09:20 PM

How Muralitheran (???) can be rated number one with an appaling action is incredible. There are many players who ump to mind ahead of him. I always thought the best bowlers outside Australians were Hadlee, even though I had no time for him as he was an arroagant SOB, Malcom Marshall, Ambrose, Andy Roberts (I used to try and copy his action till I kept dissapearing over the fence) and Michael Holding.
i think Warnie deserves his spot as the best Aussie bowler all though I agree he has done afew silly things but then again haven't we all, Lillee, Thommo (for fear factor) McDermott and Mc Grath are the next best I can recall.

The worst bowler I ever saw play for Australia was a bloke called Chris Someone, I can't recall his last name, a WA paceman that couldnt hit the pitch! Marginally ahead of Brad Gilbert. Although both these players are 100 times better than I ever was... :oops:



#9 raidrboy

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Posted 21 December 2002 - 10:32 PM

Smails,
I think the Chris someone you are referring to is Chris Matthews. I thought John Watkins effort in Sydney was by far the worst I have ever saw.

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I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them.

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#10 jeanmc

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Posted 22 December 2002 - 09:51 PM

as a sandgroper, I would have to say that Reid was a pretty good bowler for the Aussies as well...cut down in his prime due to injuries... sad.gif
he and craig used to be a great opening attack...

Mw.



#11 judgesmails

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 11:41 PM

That's him Raider, I remembered his name later the same day. Can't say I remember John Watkins, maybe he was more forgettable than Matthews!



#12 joe

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 07:46 AM

Sri lanka play a lot more weak teams than Australia. SL have played Zim. twice in the last 3-4 years, as well as the mighty Bangladesh. This favours a bowler like Muralidaran over Warne or McGath when it comes to stats.



#13 damo

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 10:07 AM

sounds like sour grapes to me!
damo



#14 joe

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Posted 31 December 2002 - 03:13 AM

Yeah, I'll pay that.



#15 hind0

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 09:17 PM

Put Warne or even MacGill on the sub-continent for 3-4 years and play teams like Bang/Zim etc and they'd have a zillion wickets too.

And Damo, I don't need you to provide your usual inflamatory and antogonistic comment on this one, you've said more than enough.






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