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Woodlands changes


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#121 Moe

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 08:41 AM

i'm sure there are pockets of members for or against at most of the sandbelt clubs.



#122 AndyA

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 08:37 AM

QUOTE: MatthewM @ Nov 1 2006, 11:29 AM


Andy, in my opinion, Royal Melbourne, Yarra Yarra, Commonwealth, Spring Valley and maybe one or two others would be more than happy without the disruption, the course works, the unwashed masses trampling their courses, and the headaches leading upto and following any major tournament. Do you see it differently?

MM

Matty, Royal Melbourne doesn't aspire to host tournaments? Then why did they have four Heineken's in a row? Yarra Yarra had the women's Open for a number of years, and Commonwealth would certainly be interested in a tournament if they had the facilities. Has Spring Valley had a professional tournament of consequence in the last two decades (or ever)?



#123 MatthewM

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 08:51 AM

QUOTE: AndyA @ Nov 2 2006, 10:37 PM


Matty, Royal Melbourne doesn't aspire to host tournaments? Then why did they have four Heineken's in a row? Yarra Yarra had the women's Open for a number of years, and Commonwealth would certainly be interested in a tournament if they had the facilities. Has Spring Valley had a professional tournament of consequence in the last two decades (or ever)?

Andy,

You and I both know there is a significant faction at RM which would now be quite happy to be rid of the Heineken. as you said - Yarra Yarra HAD the women's Open for a number of years. My news is they are over the froth and bubble associated with this event. Commonwealth would be silly to go chasing events - they should get their course in order before they have pro players trample it. Woodlands is that silly - which is a shame. Spring Valley? Don't know what they have hosted, but can't remember anything big...

What would you think if CGC were to host a big aussie tourney?

MM



#124 AndyA

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 09:55 AM

Matt, your statement was that many sandbelt clubs wouldn't aspire to host tournaments, not whether they should aspire to or not.

Once Commonwealth has the course in order, don't be surprised if they begin to think about an Australian Open. But don't worry, the priority at this stage is fixing the course, and any tournament aspirations are a long way off. I would be very much in favour of a tournament, at the right time, for a variety of reasons:

1. Once the course is in top shape (some years off), its an opportunity to showcase it to the golfing world.
2. Part of me would be intrigued by how Ogilvy, Scott, Appleby etc play the course.
3. Boost to the club's profile, which results in a stronger waiting list, more interstate/overseas visitors paying big $ to play, and the additional prestige means we could make more from corporate days.
4. Not having to beg friends of mine for clubhouse passes just once would be nice!



#125 golfguy33

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE: MatthewM @ Nov 2 2006, 10:51 PM


Andy,

You and I both know there is a significant faction at RM which would now be quite happy to be rid of the Heineken. as you said - Yarra Yarra HAD the women's Open for a number of years. My news is they are over the froth and bubble associated with this event. Commonwealth would be silly to go chasing events - they should get their course in order before they have pro players trample it. Woodlands is that silly - which is a shame. Spring Valley? Don't know what they have hosted, but can't remember anything big...

What would you think if CGC were to host a big aussie tourney?

MM


Ok MM, I'll bite
Yarra has held Oz opens ( G. Player winner ?)
Commonwealth 1960-61 ? Oz open ( P. Thompson won ) they vowed to never hold another major event.
SV held the tour schools for many years & an Oz amateur, or part of ?

The absolute standout MM, is your statement, " Woodlands is that silly, which is a shame." WHY ???? Is it silly to try & pick up a tournament that has long history in this country & restore it to some of it's former glory/stature ?
It might take a little longer & some more money, this is a tournament worth holding onto.
MM you have a very narrow opinion about major tournaments on our sand belt courses, please expound some more of your wisdom for us ...

Jon...



#126 ttitheridge

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 06:20 PM

Moods of Golf Clubs towards hosting pro events are cyclical and also depend on the nature and scale of the tournament. A Euro event like the Heineken chops up the place and disrupts members for a couple of months. A Vic Open means that for a few days, members can't play and the course doesn't suffer much wear. All other events fall somewhere in between.

Aside from issues such as other priorities at the forefront (such as course work rendering the venue temporarily unsuitable), it is rare for many sandbelt clubs to spend considerable years categorically ruling out the willingness or desire to have an event.

Don't worry about room for practice facilities. The Australian PGA Championship at Concord successfully spent two years ferrying us all by minibus to a nearby park to hit balls. It isn't the end of the world, and by doing so, space is created for other infrastructure and logistics on an existing practice fairway. Heck, Woodlands range is tiny and seems to do ok.

Cramped spaces is a tired excuse for telling a club they shouldn't have anything. We are talking about a minimum 100 acres of land here! We were told NSW was too cramped and had poor access, and they staged a European Tour event! Yarra Yarra is on one of the tightest parcels of sandbelt golf and yet it staged the Vic Open in the 80s when it was a MUCH bigger event on a grander scale than what it is today (and grander than the infrastructure for the more recent Womens Opens). The Nedlands Masters in the 80s got much bigger than a current Von Nida event is, and handled all the logistics on it's 9 hole track. If they really wanted to, organisers could stage a tournament just about anywhere.



#127 Uncle_Leo

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 06:55 PM

tithers, access and parking (off site for the masses) is also a major issue.



#128 ttitheridge

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 07:54 PM

QUOTE: Jack @ Nov 3 2006, 08:55 AM


tithers, access and parking (off site for the masses) is also a major issue.

Refer to my Nedlands example. A carpark to suit a 9 hole course, and a suburban club with a small single entrance.

Nearby parks can be used for a lot of that as well. NSW ran a European Tour event with no on site parking for the masses and one single suburban entrance.

I've been involved in the setup logistics for around 70 Australasian PGA Tour events, from marshalling logistics, fairway roping, the painting of parking zones and the like. I've seen tough shoe box jobs and I've seen luxurious spreads on wide tracts of land. The former type just requires far more resourcefulness and planning than the latter, but it is an obstacle, not a killer. If there is a town anywhere nearby the course with running water and electricity, you can hold an event there.

"But to have an event at XYZ Golf CLub, you'd have to ferry people here and put this in a neighbouring suburb there because they haven't the room". Yes, and that is done around the world on a number of tours all through the year.



#129 CraigaW

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 12:16 AM

At the FBR open in Phoenix this year they ferry people from carparks about 2 k's from the course yet they move up to 100,000 people in and out each day.

It is called planning .



#130 drgolf

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 09:33 AM

QUOTE: ttitheridge @ Oct 29 2006, 08:18 AM


carlosc,

You may be a mid to long term member, but you know little of quality.
From the optimum approach zone, the green is not difficult to hold with an old two piece rock. I have been playing Woodlands for more than 20 years, worked at at least six tournaments there (including two where i was working for the tour bodies with the groundstaff on the course prep), have never played it as a single figure handicapper, and yet with all manner of outdated implements, have NEVER found the green difficult to hold with a good shot from the right approach area.
They use the device utilised by lesser and lower quality courses of "pinching" drive zones. Many of the great courses don't use compulsory corridors of play. They offer width and enticement and it is up to the player to avoid folly by unthinkingly hitting to a lesser zone. Courses that pinch are a dime a dozen, and there are hundreds in this country that will never be in this nation's top 100. It is NOT something to aspire to.

Woodlands FIRST BECAME a great course because of its use of these devices and angles to accentuate the contrasting approaches into green complexes. The members of today have a choice. Allow it to continue to be a great golf course (it has been wonderful for nearly 100 years), or be the first to mess it up. Read this next bit carefully, and you'll learn why the recent vote went the way it did.

A couple of hundred metres and a nip and tuck would achieve nothing to seriously improve what has been a great course for generations before you came along. It is a great course because those decades before you ALSO resisted such short sightedness.


With this above quote, you have revealed your complete ignorance about course architecture.

Woodlands is a good club because it HASN'T greatly tinkered foolishly with the course. To meddle with it now gives your Sandhursts a boost and a free pass. Clubs and balls may have been totally different my friend, but the average handicap

hasn't changed

. That's right, it ISN'T easier. You want to fight off the competition for members? Keep the course great by leaving it and you will.

I have worked at professional tournaments (both men and women) here many a time, a LOT longer than you've been there.

I've seen more pro tournament play at Woodlands than you have, and been involved in the preparation. You cannot tell me ONE SINGLE way the course has suffered at the hands of proficient modern players because it HASN'T. The PGA at Medinah was played on a course nearly 7km long, and yet the winning score there was just as low as the average has been at Woodlands!!! laugh.gif


I agree. And RARELY do any course changes do anything except

LOWER

the quality of the course. So therefore, they are NOT improvements.

Go away and come back when you learn something, or get over being bitter about the meddling minority having their carnage halted.


actually TTITHERIDGE - I may not know as much about golf architecture perhaps as some others do, although I do enjoy the subject and have numerous golf books / atlases etc in my study
and am a member at 3 golf clubs, have been playing off single figures for almost 20 yrs, but at least I appreciate the basic notion that people are entitled to an opinion, and that JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH ME DOES NOT ENTITLE ME TO INSULT THEM !!!



#131 ttitheridge

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 09:47 AM

QUOTE: carlosc @ Nov 10 2006, 11:33 PM

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH ME DOES NOT ENTITLE ME TO INSULT THEM !!!

In these forums, I've been insulted and had my head served to me on a plate as often as I've dished it out. If you call that insulting, you need a thicker skin. I dish it out, and I cop it as well.

I'm glad you are a good golfer and have been for 20 years. Then you will realise the folly of your statement that the third green can't be held. From the preferred playing angle, it can be held by any 15-20 marker, even in the height of summer. Even with a $2 rock. That's not my opinion against yours. That's empirical fact.

Before you hypocritically call me for insulting you, look at your post. Unlike just about anyone else on here, you targeted my post without even introducing yourself. If a guy disagrees with you in a pub when you've never seen him before, heard his name and he hasn't even said hello, I'm guessing you don't buy him a beer smile.gif

I'll buy you the beer and listen respectfully and humbly to everything you say. Perhaps if you don't charge into the room swinging. My biggest transgression in that mode was at rightfootsloth a few years ago. And I rightly copped all I deserved for it.



#132 AndyA

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:04 AM

QUOTE: ttitheridge @ Nov 10 2006, 12:47 PM


In these forums, I've been insulted and had my head served to me on a plate as often as I've dished it out. If you call that insulting, you need a thicker skin. I dish it out, and I cop it as well.

Breathtaking hypocrisy from a bloke who went missing for eight months when someone dared to call him out...



#133 ttitheridge

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE: AndyA @ Nov 11 2006, 12:04 AM


Breathtaking hypocrisy from a bloke who went missing for eight months when someone dared to call him out...

Call me out for what?



#134 morcom

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE: ttitheridge @ Jun 24 2005, 11:06 PM


One of the internal views was that a particular office bearer was looking to "leave his mark", despite the short sightedness of some of the suggestions.


It is too easy to rationlise a major change on the grounds that the original architect might have done the same thing,if he had all the equipment we do today.Too many committee members have sought to make their name by remodeling a fine course because they are unable to create one from scratch.



#135 golfguy33

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:14 AM

The Master-plan has been removed from the hallway end of story, Jon...






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