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Right Shoulder Down Plane


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#31 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 01:03 PM

Hi Devon,

hope you are keeping well and surviving without the regular golf fix? Situation here is the same, golf club closed, all tees, flag sticks and holes removed. This will get very testing if it keeps going more than a month or two. 
 

Have lost interest in golf lately, my wife has health issues that has made me change my priorities. Having the Coronavirus around as well, doesn’t help.

 

I did get out to have a chip on the front lawn yesterday, first time in a couple of months. I needed to get out of the house for my own well being.

 

I was trying to figure out why I tended to pull my shots left with my hitting action. I had a feeling that it had something to do with my right shoulder, not going down plane but I hadn’t been able to figure out why. For some reason, my right shoulder was being inhibited from going down plane.  I then figured that for my right shoulder to go down plane, then the left shoulder has to go up plane. With that in mind, I adjusted my pivot to make sure the left shoulder went up plane. To do this, I simply had to straighten the left leg, in what is often called a “posting” action. By doing that, it enabled my right shoulder to go down plane, without the feeling of being blocked. While this action sounds straight forward, for those of us in ageing bodies, the body flex required to do this action can be a problem. At least I know now what I need to do to fix the problem, it’s the doing that may be an issue for me on the golf course.


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#32 Devongolfer

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 04:22 PM

Hi, Jack,

I was hoping I might hear from you, very sorry to hear about your wife's health issues.

To your post about the right shoulder. Getting the right shoulder to move down plane is not a simple move with the right shoulder alone, which you described.

With my ageing body, I have to set up a fraction open and the hips need to pivot out of the way. My delight came when I realised that the pivot moves I needed to allow my right shoulder to move down plane were "good" pivot moves that I would otherwise be wanting to do anyway.

So, my preshot routine is one or two rehearsals of the right shoulder moving down plane with the right elbow in sync with the right shoulder. Once that feels right, I hit the ball. A sort of "right shoulder pump and go" move.

The origin of this is Lynn Blake, who got it from Homer, as far as the importance of the right shoulder going down plane. The thing that sold it to me was when I realised I no longer needed swing thoughts about the pivot if I did the rehearsal as mentioned.
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#33 efdeel

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 05:32 PM

Wow...I never thought about my right shoulder in my swing. I only have my left shoulder in my swing-thought.

(I am right-handed)


Driver : MacGregor Mactec NVG.............(2005 model, cheapest forgiving driver that I can bought)

3 Wood : Ena Golf...................................(?year? cheap one but I like the impact)

7 Wood : XXIO.........................................(2005 model, from my dad)

5 Rescue : Tourstage ViQ........................(2008 model)

Irons : XXIO MP200.................................(2003 model, from my dad)

Wedge : Cleveland Becu 56 deg.............(cheapest old wedge that I can bought)


#34 Devongolfer

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 05:47 PM

efdeel,

The last thing I would advise is adding yet another swing thought. Jack is getting his right shoulder down plane by feeling his left shoulder going up plane, so you could very easily be doing just fine with your left shoulder swing thought.

For me, the merit of the right shoulder swing feel is that it allows me to dump swing thoughts to do with the pivot due to the fact that I have no option but to pivot properly if I am to be physically able to get my right shoulder down plane.

It works for me because it is simpler than what I had before. If, for you, it adds complexity, I suspect you won't see much benefit.
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#35 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 06:01 PM

efdeel,

The last thing I would advise is adding yet another swing thought. Jack is getting his right shoulder down plane by feeling his left shoulder going up plane, so you could very easily be doing just fine with your left shoulder swing thought.

For me, the merit of the right shoulder swing feel is that it allows me to dump swing thoughts to do with the pivot due to the fact that I have no option but to pivot properly if I am to be physically able to get my right shoulder down plane.

It works for me because it is simpler than what I had before. If, for you, it adds complexity, I suspect you won't see much benefit.

Right there Devon, I am only focusing on getting the left shoulder up plane because it was blocking my right shoulder going down plane. I usually just focus on these moves until it becomes automatic and then start on fixing some other flaw. It works well until one day, for no reason my game falls apart. WTF has gone wrong now? That’s when I reach for my notes in the hope that I have cure already noted for what ever it is.

 

As far as starting the swing, I start with a very relaxed grip and arms at setup, then a slight forward press that engages extensor action and everything flows from there.



#36 BROWNMAN

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 11:26 AM

right hip.....right arm.......right arm......left hip..................right elbow must lead hands,......right wrist stays in bent position through entire swing,right wrist NEVER ***** and uncocks,.......right forearm on plane and in-line with shaft as in right forearm flying wedge..........do this with shoulders rotating 90 deg to spine.....this is pretty much all i concentrate on.................but is all centrered around good pivot............us humans just make golf harder by breaking the fundementals


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What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
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#37 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 04:21 PM

right hip.....right arm.......right arm......left hip..................right elbow must lead hands,......right wrist stays in bent position through entire swing,right wrist NEVER ***** and uncocks,.......right forearm on plane and in-line with shaft as in right forearm flying wedge..........do this with shoulders rotating 90 deg to spine.....this is pretty much all i concentrate on.................but is all centrered around good pivot............us humans just make golf harder by breaking the fundementals

Oh to have a good pivot! If only my back was 40 years younger, I might be able to have a good pivot.

 

It surprises me how little time is spent by pros on getting students to pivot correctly. No wonder there are so many hackers on the golf course.



#38 BROWNMAN

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 04:51 PM

Oh to have a good pivot! If only my back was 40 years younger, I might be able to have a good pivot.

 

It surprises me how little time is spent by pros on getting students to pivot correctly. No wonder there are so many hackers on the golf course.

Jack,hope your well,and I believe your wife not well so,hoping she picks up,i know what that like as my wife not well either....prayers and best wishes for you both.....I dont blame pros too much,a person usually goes to get a slice or hook fixed up,but we all be better off if begin with pivot repair first,they would put us all on right tram imo,pivot first and start from there.......we can all get better pivot if given good info first,then we can extend to other zones


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I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#39 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 05:19 PM

Jack,hope your well,and I believe your wife not well so,hoping she picks up,i know what that like as my wife not well either....prayers and best wishes for you both.....I dont blame pros too much,a person usually goes to get a slice or hook fixed up,but we all be better off if begin with pivot repair first,they would put us all on right tram imo,pivot first and start from there.......we can all get better pivot if given good info first,then we can extend to other zones

 

Thanks Brownie, we have a hard road ahead unfortunately.

 

If you haven’t mastered the pivot, you will never get to be a good golfer...IMO



#40 BROWNMAN

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 06:45 PM

the easiest pivot   Tom Tomasello / Chapter 1 / The Pivot - YouTube


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#41 Devongolfer

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 02:04 AM

Brownie,

thanks for reminding me about Tomasello, he does a great job of communicating TGM. I notice that his videos are actually hosted on Lynn Blake's website.

I watched 3 of his videos, including the first one you linked to. In one of them he talks about the first move of the arms has to be down. I think that move is the same move I feel as right shoulder down plane.

Put another way, for me the feel is that I am really attacking the ball with the right shoulder and right elbow, the right forearm just kicks in automatically late in the downswing.

That means I can forget about hitting with my arms, and that is key. Whenever I feel that I want to hit with my arms, it is pretty certain that I will come OTT because I will hit too soon. Or lose lag and throwaway.

#42 BROWNMAN

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 10:27 AM

Brownie,

thanks for reminding me about Tomasello, he does a great job of communicating TGM. I notice that his videos are actually hosted on Lynn Blake's website.

I watched 3 of his videos, including the first one you linked to. In one of them he talks about the first move of the arms has to be down. I think that move is the same move I feel as right shoulder down plane.

Put another way, for me the feel is that I am really attacking the ball with the right shoulder and right elbow, the right forearm just kicks in automatically late in the downswing.

That means I can forget about hitting with my arms, and that is key. Whenever I feel that I want to hit with my arms, it is pretty certain that I will come OTT because I will hit too soon. Or lose lag and throwaway.

 

Brownie,

thanks for reminding me about Tomasello, he does a great job of communicating TGM. I notice that his videos are actually hosted on Lynn Blake's website.

I watched 3 of his videos, including the first one you linked to. In one of them he talks about the first move of the arms has to be down. I think that move is the same move I feel as right shoulder down plane.

Put another way, for me the feel is that I am really attacking the ball with the right shoulder and right elbow, the right forearm just kicks in automatically late in the downswing.

That means I can forget about hitting with my arms, and that is key. Whenever I feel that I want to hit with my arms, it is pretty certain that I will come OTT because I will hit too soon. Or lose lag and throwaway.

The thing not mentioned here Dev is when one starts down with R/shoulder must also be "back" also


I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#43 BROWNMAN

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 10:29 AM

The thing not mentioned here Dev is when one starts down with R/shoulder must also be "back" also

So many things clear-up when they realise the shoulders rotate at 90 degrees to the spine


I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#44 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 10:56 AM

Brownie,

The problem with Tomasello is, like all pros, they assume that everyone has the flexibility that they have. When you have issues with your spine, even when you know what you want to do, the subconscious mind will invent ways to modify your movement to protect the spine. Hence, the default swing is for the shoulders to not swing on the preferred plane line. 
 

They never talk about that. IMO they don’t talk about it because they don’t understand the problem and I am beginning to wonder if they truly understand the mechanics.

 

It has now become blindingly obvious to me that for the right shoulder to go down plane, then the left shoulder has to go up plane. If you don’t understand and manage that, then your attempt to just drive the right shoulder down plane can be completely futile.



#45 BROWNMAN

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 11:08 AM

Brownie,

The problem with Tomasello is, like all pros, they assume that everyone has the flexibility that they have. When you have issues with your spine, even when you know what you want to do, the subconscious mind will invent ways to modify your movement to protect the spine. Hence, the default swing is for the shoulders to not swing on the preferred plane line. 
 

They never talk about that. IMO they don’t talk about it because they don’t understand the problem and I am beginning to wonder if they truly understand the mechanics.

 

It has now become blindingly obvious to me that for the right shoulder to go down plane, then the left shoulder has to go up plane. If you don’t understand and manage that, then your attempt to just drive the right shoulder down plane can be completely futile.

I agree Jack with what you are saying,but,understand the average golfer just bends to the ball at waist not understanding there is a proper way to get body in proper alignment,ie..if you just bend your knees to get to address you have already "slouched"  and this is where most people end up in trouble,they are swinging around a bent spine,if they address the ball by using 3 point set they will be better aligned to rotate around spine keeping in mind the spine will never be at perfect straight line,but it is in a prefered state by getting it better alignment.


I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE




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