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Peter Croker; Golf System.


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#1 333pg333

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 09:21 AM

Anyone have any knowledge, experience or contact with Peter Croker and his system? Looks like he was pretty connected with The Dart. I'm going to a talk of his in a week. Just wondering what to expect? Assuming it's TGM centric. 



#2 333pg333

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 06:46 AM

So he's a devotee of TGM and was great mates with The Dart, Paul Hart. Some good videos on the website. Will be interested to see what he comes up with at this meeting. Going for a club fit the next day too. Doubt that will have any effect but perhaps a change in some aspect of the swing might do something...



#3 madness

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 02:50 PM

I think he did the "natural golf" program back in the day if my fading memory serves me right. I had a couple of lessons at the time from a disciple. They would place you in P5 in The Golf Machine language and get you to simply push both hands down with momentum. That was the basic theory. Horrible. To me it's a case of looking at pictures of good players and trying to copy it. But what we see a good player do frame by frame and what that good player is trying to do are two different things. I don't think good players are trying to extend their arms or hit down. Those two things happen through the momentum of trying to move a heavy club around while catching a ball on the way through.

I think the best players have two basic thoughts even if they don't realise it. Catch the ball and lift the ball. And they are doing these two things with as much force as they can muster. The first thought of catching the ball creates loading and lag while the thought of lifting the ball creates the release. They are skilled enough to make it look like one movement. Like a piano player makes hundreds of notes look like one piece of music.



#4 Goldy

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 02:54 PM

I played a pro-am with him about 7 years ago and I reckon he was about 100 then.

 

I'm not sure that all the wiring would be still connected in the manner in which it's designer intended.


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#5 broso_md

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 06:32 PM

I thought I read that he passed away a few years ago, obviously  I am mistaken. 


Edited by broso_md, 26 November 2019 - 06:55 PM.


#6 golfguy33

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:00 PM

I thought I read that he passed away a few years ago, obviously  I am mistaken. 

Formaldehyde, amazing naturally occurring substance CH20 when used correctly :)

Jon...  


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#7 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:04 AM

PG,
Devon was into Crocker in a big way from memory. If you are lucky, he may see your post. Try a PM if not.
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#8 333pg333

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 07:17 AM

I think he did the "natural golf" program back in the day if my fading memory serves me right. I had a couple of lessons at the time from a disciple. They would place you in P5 in The Golf Machine language and get you to simply push both hands down with momentum. That was the basic theory. Horrible. To me it's a case of looking at pictures of good players and trying to copy it. But what we see a good player do frame by frame and what that good player is trying to do are two different things. I don't think good players are trying to extend their arms or hit down. Those two things happen through the momentum of trying to move a heavy club around while catching a ball on the way through.

I think the best players have two basic thoughts even if they don't realise it. Catch the ball and lift the ball. And they are doing these two things with as much force as they can muster. The first thought of catching the ball creates loading and lag while the thought of lifting the ball creates the release. They are skilled enough to make it look like one movement. Like a piano player makes hundreds of notes look like one piece of music.

I suspect you're talking about what Paul Hart recommends as a good basic swing pattern starting point. It's quite a simple pattern of hinging and straightening the right forearm through impact and feeling the pressure points in the hands at a prescribed area. It's a simple motion and I did try it with some reasonable success. Still have to wait for elbow to be as close to, or in front of right hip as possible. 

 
Not really sure about your concept that good players think about trying to get the ball into the air. Sounds too much like scooping to me?

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#9 333pg333

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 07:18 AM

My coach knew Paul Hart pretty well and described PC as a true golf addict. I'm curious enough to see what he has to say. Currently my lessons are focussing on some pretty simple things so I don't want to clutter my pea brain up much more than it already is. However sometimes someone gives you a thought or move that helps along the way. 
 
As an aside, in yesterday's lesson my coach reminded me to relax the jaw and mouth. It's a great starting point for any golfer and one that I knew but had forgotten. Interestingly the new hitting action reminds me a bit of PLonard. (I had previously gone down the Gary Edwin path some years back so PLonard was a bit of a poster bloke for me in the past) I played at the Lakes yesterday before the lesson, and lo & behold there was PLonard on the range and later on course a few groups behind. When I visualise his swing it makes me feel all strong through arms and chest, but it also can create too much tension. So the Jaw relax concept is a good one to try and disarm any tension. 
 


#10 333pg333

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 01:20 PM

Well, went to the discussion. Proved to be very interesting. Although even in an introductory form, it was a little complex from time to time. I find that TGM or derivatives to be demanding in maintaining exacting standards regards positioning. Especially the hands/wrists. To be honest I went away thinking it was all going to be too complex for my ever diminishing brain. So I took it to the course on Friday and had some positive results. Especially with the irons. Some great compression and flight. The woods seemed quite straight but perhaps with some loss of distance. To be fair, I'm sure I'm not doing 'it' correctly yet but it does feel like a simple pattern when you do it right. Had 40 pts yesterday playing off 9. Should have had at least 45 if putts that looked in but somehow didn't drop, well, dropped. It will be interesting to see this develop and also what it looks like on video. 'Feels' like I'm in a better position at the top and impact. 



#11 BROWNMAN

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 07:59 AM

Well, went to the discussion. Proved to be very interesting. Although even in an introductory form, it was a little complex from time to time. I find that TGM or derivatives to be demanding in maintaining exacting standards regards positioning. Especially the hands/wrists. To be honest I went away thinking it was all going to be too complex for my ever diminishing brain. So I took it to the course on Friday and had some positive results. Especially with the irons. Some great compression and flight. The woods seemed quite straight but perhaps with some loss of distance. To be fair, I'm sure I'm not doing 'it' correctly yet but it does feel like a simple pattern when you do it right. Had 40 pts yesterday playing off 9. Should have had at least 45 if putts that looked in but somehow didn't drop, well, dropped. It will be interesting to see this develop and also what it looks like on video. 'Feels' like I'm in a better position at the top and impact. 

as a matter of interest 333,did PC get into the A-B drill


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#12 333pg333

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 08:41 PM

as a matter of interest 333,did PC get into the A-B drill

Yes he did. I get the impression he has slowly and subtley modified the first model from back in the 80's or 90's when he got the cover of Golf Digest. 

His controversial teaching was to throw the club at the ball. Clearly this went against the grain of most PGA coaches and teachings. 

He's now not the only one proposing the throw. In my opinion the throw does work contrary to what one would imagine. 

You can get good results and compress the ball with what seems to be the antithesis of concept. 

For the past couple of weeks since that meeting I've been trying whatever it is I picked up from him...and by and large, it has been working very well. 

Not that it's a mile away from what I was trying to do. I think the most important part of is pushing the grip away from the ball (after a little fwd press) and then you just sort of flick the club into what he terms the 'backsling'. You attempt to go to about 9:30 on the clockface and probably go to about 11. But if I get to about 10 and time the transistion just right, bingo...a really good impact with good distance and better dispersion than before. I'm sticking with it for now. 


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#13 BROWNMAN

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 09:10 PM

Brilliant 333,i found this A_B about 2 yrs ago and use it today,i have kept researching this and "understood" some more things that  fit right into it,1.bent rear wrist..2..underhand karate chop 3..rear elbow straightening to long rear arm down the line.......i have more distance plus accuracy........i get the feel that in going to hit the ball with back of hosel,(a real illusion)...you actually hit ball with sweet spot,geometry of levers or something like that


Edited by BROWNMAN, 19 December 2019 - 09:11 PM.

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#14 333pg333

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 05:29 AM

Good to know Brownie. He has a ton of videos on his site but I think you have to sign up to it at something like $30 per month which is pretty high. You can gain access to him and his partner and I believe some cheap lessons via video. 

 

The thing I'm not sure about is the hand position at top of 'backsling'. He made mention not to ###### the right wrist which aligns with what you wrote as a bent rear wrist. So in doing what I think this means, this seems to lay the club off behind the plane line. But I need to do some video work to see what's going on. Just been a little too busy of late. 



#15 BROWNMAN

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 08:53 AM

333,i can tell you that it feels weird when one first tries it,i cleared right side of fairway a few times till i understood what was happening lol...........i have tom tomasello tapes,,every time he speaks of downswing,his hand action goes into karate chop action......instinctively


Edited by BROWNMAN, 20 December 2019 - 08:54 AM.

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You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE




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