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#1 pegasus2357

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:59 PM

So I'm aware of appropriate actions on course but I'm intrigued as to the following....
In a recent high wind event half a tree at the edge of a penalty area.... read dry creek bed fell...
Noticed on the weekend that green keeper had made a start on cleaning up the mess... all good I thought until we descended into dry creek bed in search of errant drive...
Surprise surprise on the creek bank is half a tree moved from fairway into penalty area... really

Usually in the area you have a good chance of finding your ball and a 75 percent chance or better of having a chance of knocking your ball out and back to safety.... however where half a tree has now been left you have no chance of finding your ball let alone hitting it..

So the only option I can see apart from knee capping the green keeper is taking a drop outside the penalty area at the prescribed spot unless there is another option....should add that all 4 in group were in agreement that the lost ball was in amongst the half a tree....

So

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#2 AAA

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:59 AM

It's a penalty area so you don't get relief from a ACC (which your title implied you hoped for) but what about a Loose Impediment?



#3 pegasus2357

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:50 AM

It's a penalty area so you don't get relief from a ACC (which your title implied you hoped for) but what about a Loose Impediment?


We thought about that but the ball was considered to be in area of at least 5mtrs by 5mtrs and about 1mtr deep....

Just takes the option of hitting the ball out of play and more than likely a lost ball as well...

It would not of been to hard to dispose of tree in the waste area well clear of fairways

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#4 Weetbix

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 07:04 AM

It is a penalty area Peg

My attitude is more gratitude if I do get lucky enough to have a shot out rather than being annoyed if I don't - I don't expect to be able to because it's a penalty area
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#5 pegasus2357

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 01:29 PM

It is a penalty area Peg

My attitude is more gratitude if I do get lucky enough to have a shot out rather than being annoyed if I don't - I don't expect to be able to because it's a penalty area

 

Weeti I understand it is a hazard but why make it more penal than it already is...

The are is also not within clear view of tee as hole doglegs left.... we had a fair idea as playing partner hit foot bridge and ball was heading towards far bank ie site of the half the tree....

If you over do a draw it is in the creek or on the bank of the creek just above penalty line but you have no VKC that ball is in or out of penalty area until you find it...... the dumped half a tree means that your chances of finding it in the penalty are are greatly reduced and with no no Virtual Known Certainty where your ball is that would be a lost ball and back to the tee....


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#6 Weetbix

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 03:31 PM

Only you can make that call but if everyone is confident then I'm going with virtually certain

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#7 rogolf

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 01:42 AM

In such instances, it is always useful to recall that known or virtually certain is not based on a "vote" of players involved and to refer to the definition:

Known or Virtually Certain

The standard for deciding what happened to a player’s ball – for example, whether the ball came to rest in a penalty area, whether it moved or what caused it to move.

Known or virtually certain means more than just possible or probable. It means that either:

  • There is conclusive evidence that the event in question happened to the player’s ball, such as when the player or other witnesses saw it happen, or

  • Although there is a very small degree of doubt, all reasonably available information shows that it is at least 95% likely that the event in question happened.

“All reasonably available information” includes all information the player knows and all other information he or she can get with reasonable effort and without unreasonable delay.



#8 AAA

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 05:42 AM

 but you have no VKC that ball is in or out of penalty area until you find it.....

Not so.


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#9 golfguy33

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 09:53 PM

Green keeper put the cut up tree in the penalty area on purpose, so that it would be obvious and you only had one option for relief.

Jon...



#10 pegasus2357

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:34 PM

Green keeper put the cut up tree in the penalty area on purpose, so that it would be obvious and you only had one option for relief.

Jon...

 

One hopes next time he plays his effing ball ends up in it.... trust me it is on the cards


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#11 Turfers Paradise

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 04:11 PM

One hopes next time he plays his effing ball ends up in it.... trust me it is on the cards



He may well be playing in a wheelchair with no knees if you get too him. How many staff does he have... when did the tree fall.... was there ample time to clear the tree....was it a stroke event or pickup game.... we always have the option of taking a penalty drop
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#12 AAA

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 02:27 AM

 we always have the option of taking a penalty drop

As does everyone


Edited by AAA, 28 October 2019 - 02:27 AM.


#13 VijayJay

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 02:31 PM

And what if the creek bed wasn't dry at the minute?
Yes, I appreciate there hasn't been any rain there in your area for some time, we've all read that, but it's a creek bed none the less.

Whose fault would it be then if you can't play your ball out of a hazard that has water in it?

#14 OldBogey

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 04:31 PM

And what if the creek bed wasn't dry at the minute?
Yes, I appreciate there hasn't been any rain there in your area for some time, we've all read that, but it's a creek bed none the less.
Whose fault would it be then if you can't play your ball out of a hazard that has water in it?


It's always the green keeper's fault, just ask Turfie.
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#15 VijayJay

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 04:34 PM

He may well be playing in a wheelchair with no knees if you get too him. How many staff does he have... when did the tree fall.... was there ample time to clear the tree....was it a stroke event or pickup game.... we always have the option of taking a penalty drop

Is it always your fault?
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