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Match Play Conundrum


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#1 PerryGroves

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 10:13 AM

Gents,

 

So many wrong deciscions, bad advice etc, I'm having trouble figuring who is in the right/wrong. Match Play between A and B, with another match being played in the same group.

 

Player A hooks his ball into some trees near the practice fairway (can't exactly determine where it has gone), reloads after his opponent has hit and it goes further left onto the practice fairway. In between tee shots they notice the ball collector machine making its rounds, he says to the group that machine has probably picked up his balls.

 

He is right, gets up there and both his original and provisional have been collected and are sitting in the machine. At this point, its an easy decision however his opponent with some certainty says he needs to go back to the tee and hit his 5th, one of the players in the other match agrees, player A doesn't but reluctantly concedes the hole.

 

They walk pass our pro shop and A asks what should have happened, they tell him about outside agency and also say the because B has given the wrong ruling that in fact he should lose the hole. We are in the process of piling wrong on wrong...….I think.

 

They agree to replay the hole assuming the match is squared, at this point they are not counting the disputed hole.

 

Player A wins the replayed hole after they do in fact square the match.

 

I'm confused however regardless of B's incorrect ruling, A conceded the disputed hole so in fact B should win the match.

 

Any thoughts


Edited by PerryGroves, 17 June 2019 - 10:14 AM.


#2 languid

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 10:19 AM

Key phrase “A reluctantly CONCEDES the hole” ,
The concession stands. The replay of the hole is irrelevant.

#3 PerryGroves

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 10:21 AM

Thanks Languid..........."reluctantly" that's where I got to.

 

Now I have to ask B if he wants to be that guy.



#4 iRON MiCK

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 11:43 AM

The practice fairway at my course is clearly marked OOB. Why this is not the case in the above scenario has led to the conundrum.

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#5 languid

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 11:55 AM

Perry,
I think I might be telling B he won the match. Just my view. You might ask your State Association or Golf Australia. They are very approachable. Phone or email.
Tell them the detail after the conceded hole.
It is possible A won anyway.
I would need to study the Rules carefully with all the information. I am a bit busy now.
Others on the site could help but detail is important.

#6 rogolf

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 01:20 PM

Languid has nailed it; A conceded the hole and a concession (even if given reluctantly) cannot be withdrawn.  Replaying of the hole is irrelevant.  Figure it out from there who won the match.



#7 Tochakka

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 04:26 PM

A and B were playing a match but by the sounds of it two other players who we will call C and D were playing in the same group and may have influenced the decision of A and B to question the conceded hole.
If A or B make a good or bad decision in the match C and D should not question their decision and play their own match.

#8 OldBogey

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 05:12 PM

As I understand it, the outcome of each hole must be decided before the match proceeds. A conceded the hole at that point, so that stands.

No hole can be replayed later.
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#9 golfguy33

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 11:23 PM

They forgot the bit about " In Equity " which is a part of the rules that is rarely thought of. 

 

We tend to use, in equity for situations that occur regularly like when a ball is moved by another ball in motion during play or if a ball is taken by an animal or bird and we clearly see it happen but can't exactly know where it lay originally.

The player on another fairway that wrongly hits your ball and you have to chase them to get it back.

 

In the OP it was virtually known where the second ball finished on the practise fairway and then semi certain where the first ball had come to rest, so in equity either of those balls could be replaced as near as possible without penalty.

 

We tend to forget the sportsmanship side of golf regardless if it's a match-play or Saturday club event !

To many times in these situations the rules aficionados in the group jump in for a ruling and miss the obvious solution.

 

Jon...  


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#10 rogolf

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:28 AM

They forgot the bit about " In Equity " which is a part of the rules that is rarely thought of. 

 

We tend to use, in equity for situations that occur regularly like when a ball is moved by another ball in motion during play or if a ball is taken by an animal or bird and we clearly see it happen but can't exactly know where it lay originally.

The player on another fairway that wrongly hits your ball and you have to chase them to get it back.

 

In the OP it was virtually known where the second ball finished on the practise fairway and then semi certain where the first ball had come to rest, so in equity either of those balls could be replaced as near as possible without penalty.

 

We tend to forget the sportsmanship side of golf regardless if it's a match-play or Saturday club event !

To many times in these situations the rules aficionados in the group jump in for a ruling and miss the obvious solution.

 

Jon...  

"Equity" has nothing to do with the rulings you noted.  And I don't think the word "equity" is used in the 2019 Rules.



#11 rogolf

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:30 AM

As I understand it, the outcome of each hole must be decided before the match proceeds. A conceded the hole at that point, so that stands.

No hole can be replayed later.

Not the case.  In a match without a referee, a player can request a later ruling on a situation at any hole; the result of that hole won't be known until a decision is rendered by an official or the Committee.



#12 PerryGroves

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 06:31 PM

Not the case.  In a match without a referee, a player can request a later ruling on a situation at any hole; the result of that hole won't be known until a decision is rendered by an official or the Committee.

Ro, the interesting part for me which I didn't know was that the two ball option was not available in match play.

 

That is, A got "advice" that he needed to go back to the tee when he was actually able to play from where his first ball lay. The simplest way to resolve was the two ball in the absence of a referee. The latter ruling in this case would not have helped him.



#13 OldBogey

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:53 PM

Not the case.  In a match without a referee, a player can request a later ruling on a situation at any hole; the result of that hole won't be known until a decision is rendered by an official or the Committee.


Thanks for that clarification, rogolf.
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#14 rogolf

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:35 AM

Ro, the interesting part for me which I didn't know was that the two ball option was not available in match play.

 

That is, A got "advice" that he needed to go back to the tee when he was actually able to play from where his first ball lay. The simplest way to resolve was the two ball in the absence of a referee. The latter ruling in this case would not have helped him.

Correct, playing two balls is not permitted in match play.  The player just needs to proceed as he considers correct; if his opponent disagrees, the opponent can ask for a later ruling.

The "advice" that player A got is worth exactly what he paid for it.  Knowing the Rules is always an advantage.



#15 golfguy33

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 11:39 PM

"Equity" has nothing to do with the rulings you noted.  And I don't think the word "equity" is used in the 2019 Rules.

 

Have they taken it out of the current book ? 

 

I'll have to read it cover to cover and try to find arguably one of the best parts of the rules that has ever existed and could be used with digression by either party in a match !

Jon... 






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