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How To Square Up Clubface?


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#16 333pg333

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:22 PM

First of all you've got some good stuff happening. I disagree that the same problems exist in the DTL and your earlier FO images. In particular I like the elbow position at mid downswing better in the FO images if the difference is not due to camera angles.

 

My guess is that part of your problem is that in the DTL view your right arm straightens a little early. I'd prefer to see the elbow further toward impact before straightening. Sort of like the underarm motion skipping stones on water with the elbow a little closer to the body. That will make it easier to rotate your body through the ball like the ice skater keeping their arms closer when they want to spin faster.

 

At the same time as changing your right elbow action a little, one thing I've tried with some success is simply moving the left leg away from the target line at the start of the downswing (even the left knee for starters). In my case I thought I was doing everything I could to rotate my hips open but it turned out that I hadn't tried the obvious step of simply moving the knee and the left hip where I wanted them.

 

With so much good stuff happening in your swing though I'd try the elbow action first to see whether your natural athletic ability kicks in to move your hips.

 

As a side note Malaska advises that his move does not involve uncocking the wrists (no ulnar deviation in techo terms) until the club is stood up.

 

Thanks for the mental punch in the arm for confidence. To be honest, in the last 2 weeks with 2 lessons I've been getting worse and worse. Not altogether surprising. But to make changes sometimes we have to suffer. Having said that, it was really windy in Sydney this arvo and there's nothing like a wind to bring out faults. The biggest problem I have is starting the backswing by a pushing of the right leg laterally. I can often even feel myself sliding laterally before completing the backswing. I think that's a little bit of tension in the brain that does that. One of the reasons why I don't drink coffee (which I really enjoy) before a round of golf. 

 

So my current project from the lesson is to get back and down a little in posture to counteract the standing up part of my natural backswing. That's the first part. He then had me try and produce the 'swoosh' at the bottom of the arc to put it simply. This was the practice swing at the top of this thread. The 1st lesson he was trying to get me to think of dropping my left knee down, out, up and around kinda-sorta. Which is more or less what you're saying. The thing is that this right leg is so dominant that while I'm thinking of turning back and 'screwing down' with right leg, trying to keep arms closer to my body as I tended to have too much separation, tinker between going back bowed or cupped, drop the arms down at beginning of swing, keep the right elbow, wrist bent and try to push down/out with a bowed left wrist...all while trying to keep head back while almost viciously rotating hips and staying in shape like Tommy Fleetwood from behind. Not a lot to ask....So clearly I'm a mess and think I probably need to take a break from the game for a few weeks. I pretty much feel like I can't even hit the ball at the moment. It's a headfcuk! 

Have a read of Kelvin's article on Micro Moves of the Correct Backswing. I can't copy it on the rubbish tablet I'm using. From what I see all your issues originate in the backswing and maybe a weak left hand grip.

Didn't think my grip was weak. If anything it sometimes can get a bit strong. Although as you say the left is more weak than the right. I'd say on average the left thumb is at 1 o'clock. Right hand is stronger. I can go stronger with left. Actually tried that a little today. Felt like DJ. Went back with what felt like super shut clubface. Too hard to tell by then though as my brain was fried between 35kmh winds and growing inward confidence spiral. 



#17 Zenstb

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:22 PM

I'll certainly agree that my tendency is for the hips to stall and the arms to catch up in general.

 

Here's a few screen grabs from behind and hitting a ball. 

This was done before that sequence above. But same problems exist. Not enough hip rotation on downswing. Too much lateral shift. Impacting on lag and clubface orientation. Having to save with hands. I think average distance with 7 iron is around 160mtrs which I'll take. Not a young fella anymore. 

Need to figure out a thought / feeling to get the hips working better. 

 

Watch this video I hope this helps you understand what tour players do vs amateurs with their right arm .  Tour players straighten their arm from the top and the elbow doesn't get in front of the right hip. I feel this video will relate to your swing.


Edited by Zenstb, 12 February 2019 - 05:25 PM.

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#18 333pg333

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:35 PM

Very interesting Zen. Thanks for making that video up. It's amazing how some precepts we take for granted my actually be 180o wrong. 

I wish I could complain of too much lag due to keeping right elbow tucked down for too long. I've always been a bit of a caster and therefore when I see the position of impact (last pic in post #1) I thought "Yay"...it looks like I'm ticking a lot of boxes. However it's not a real swing and obviously the face is wide open. Also, I've been kinda working towards coming up and almost backwards with left side which is what it looks like the cool kids are doing of late. Actually coming out of their shoes seems to be the norm. 

 

I'll take your vid imagery to me to the next driving range session and see what I can come up with. I'll be thinking of how to keep the left shoulder down for longer. 



#19 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:50 PM

Thanks for the mental punch in the arm for confidence. To be honest, in the last 2 weeks with 2 lessons I've been getting worse and worse. Not altogether surprising. But to make changes sometimes we have to suffer. 

 

...

 

I'm not a fan of the idea that you must give up help of good golf when you take a lesson. With your athletic ability you should be experiencing an immediate feeling that you are onto something. In particular you should be seeing more than a few shots with a more penetrating ball flight and that whooshing feeling through impact. As though you have released the brakes. The down side would be that your ball striking might be a bit less consistent.

 

The advice you are working on seems pretty sound to me but maybe with a little too much detail all at once. That is unless your teacher has managed to bundle all the improvements into one overall feel.

 

If it isn't coming I'd suggest dropping back to either a shorter club or something less than a full swing. When it starts to click push it more until it breaks down. That's where you will get best value from your practice.


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#20 Old Poppy

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:57 PM

Hahaha..who is the idiot/s who made that animation? Pull up a video of Dustin Johnson, Cameron Champ and see if they are straightening their trail arm.
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#21 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:21 PM

As an antidote to the misguided advice from Zen, here is exhibit A. Note the action of the right elbow on the downswing. Also note the movement of the left shoulder.

 


Edited by Forrest Gardener, 12 February 2019 - 06:35 PM.

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#22 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:31 PM

Hahaha..who is the idiot/s who made that animation? Pull up a video of Dustin Johnson, Cameron Champ and see if they are straightening their trail arm.

 

Agreed. Zen's little video is possibly the worst I have ever seen.


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#23 Zenstb

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:36 PM

As an antidote to the misguided analysis by Zen, here is exhibit A. Note the action of the right elbow on the downswing. Also note the movement of the left shoulder.

 

 Don't think so champ,

Tiger matches the other tour players the left shoulder doesn't rise up until after P6, he aligns with the other tour players in 3D. Take note champ, Tiger's right Elbow behind the right hip too.

Attached File  Tiger vs 3d.jpg   62.44KB   0 downloads


Edited by Zenstb, 12 February 2019 - 06:46 PM.

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#24 Old Poppy

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:39 PM

Agreed. Zen's little video is possibly the worst I have ever seen.

Who ever created it didn't bother to scrutinize the swings of the top level drivers on tour. My guess is the animation is to try and prove HK's theory of extensor action during the downswing. It has never worked and it never will because it internally rotates the trail shoulder prematurely. If this worked it would be seen on tour and by he who make cuts.
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#25 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:46 PM

 Don't think so champ,

Tiger matches the other tour players the left shoulder doesn't rise up until after P6, he aligns with the other tour players in 3D.

 

Reading isn't a strong point for you, is it? I said to look at the movement of the shoulder.

 

Now get back to your analysis of the right arm action. You will note that your stick figures of what you claim to be (or be similar to) Tiger Woods plainly show a very different motion of the right fore arm. A self proclaimed expert such as yourself should have spotted it in an instant.

 

And as for your laughable little video, compare THAT with Woods action. And just so you stick to the point, the subject is the proximity of the right elbow to the right side as a means of creating lag.

 

Give it up Zen. You can never substantiate anything you say.


Edited by Forrest Gardener, 12 February 2019 - 07:02 PM.

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#26 BROWNMAN

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:09 PM


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I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#27 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:11 PM

...

 

Yes, I've seen that one. Unfortunately there is no way to identify the player because I'd quite like to see a swing video. The digitized right forearm action just looks wrong. One of the key commonalities of good players is that when viewed from face on the trail elbow goes "below" the lead arm when lag is being generated.

 

The other thing is that the main point of the AMG video is that the amateur uses far too much bend in his right elbow at various points.

 

I'll stick with the video of Tiger noting how much time his trail elbow spends "below" his lead arm when lag is being generated.


Edited by Forrest Gardener, 12 February 2019 - 07:16 PM.

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#28 BROWNMAN

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:44 PM

Yes, I've seen that one. Unfortunately there is no way to identify the player because I'd quite like to see a swing video. The digitized right forearm action just looks wrong. One of the key commonalities of good players is that when viewed from face on the trail elbow goes "below" the lead arm when lag is being generated.

 

The other thing is that the main point of the AMG video is that the amateur uses far too much bend in his right elbow at various points.

 

I'll stick with the video of Tiger noting how much time his trail elbow spends "below" his lead arm when lag is being generated.

"just looks wrong".....biggest test mate is ball direction and flight,looks can deceive though.FG..https://www.youtube....h?v=ZSy30hPFEVA


I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#29 BROWNMAN

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:46 PM

"just looks wrong".....biggest test mate is ball direction and flight,looks can deceive though.FG..https://www.youtube....h?v=ZSy30hPFEVA


I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#30 BROWNMAN

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:47 PM

its like my swing lol


I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE




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