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#76 BROWNMAN

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 04:39 PM

h

 

I gave up reading instruction in golf magazines 3-4 years ago when I read the EXACT opposite advice in two different articles in the same issue of a magazine. Can’t remember exactly what it was, something in the short game.h

hit chip with forward swing.................hit chip with back swing


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#77 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 04:40 PM

Forrest, thanks for the Gankas video. I found that very interesting.

I am always trying to find the feel that goes with the idea, as you know.

As I experimented with his ideas, the feel that I noticed was to do with the ability to use the legs to rotate. If my goal was to rotate powerfully with the legs, I tend to squat a little, naturally. If I wanted to retain that ability to turn with the legs, I would delay that a fraction.

 

...

 

 

Glad to hear you found the video interesting. I've reached the stage now that I'm just listening to various people in the hope that somehow a coherent set of ideas will crystallize.

 

In respect to rotation there appear to be two competing schools of thought at the extremes. One is that the legs and hips are the best source of power in the swing. The other is that the legs and hips are the best source of stability in the swing.

 

What I've gleaned is that it is a really good idea to coordinate the movement of the various body parts. Too much body drive and the arms will be left behind. Too much arm drive and the body will be left behind.


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#78 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 04:41 PM

Funny...even the best still act all gushy around the Pro. 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=UtwsQFtbknA

 

Great find. What an interesting group. Loved the comment from Jon Rahm at the end.


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#79 Devongolfer

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 07:50 PM

Forrest,

Of everyone, the best explanation of contradictory advice I have found comes from Jim Hardy. I'll say no more here, there is a whole thread on Hardy.

I think you are close with too much arms, not enough body and vice versa, plus the argument of power versus stability from the legs.

My own conclusion, for myself as a non athlete, is that I cannot coordinate if I try to use leg power. However, there is a fine line between using the legs for stability and going too far and the legs being too immobile and creating resistance which slows down the swing.

What I am looking for is basically an arms swing yet with a pivot that responsively moves with, and gets out of the way. If that makes sense.

Gankas' ideas seemed helpful to me in that context.

#80 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 05 April 2019 - 08:13 PM

...

 

What I am looking for is basically an arms swing yet with a pivot that responsively moves with, and gets out of the way. If that makes sense.

 

...

 

That is very close to the way Tony Luczak describes his swing ideas.


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#81 Devongolfer

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 04:09 PM

Forrest,

had a look at Luczak. A bit rambling, but you are right, he is advocating the type of swing I am working towards. Thanks for the pointer.

One idea got my attention. He describes his swing type as an underarm, not an overarm, throw.

The point of that is not so much to do with the arm, but the body sequence. The natural sequence for an overarm throw starts with the body, whereas for an underarm throw it starts with the arm and the body follows.

When I "heave", that is an instinctive overarm throw type body sequence attempting more power as if attempting a long overarm throw. I don't do that very often these days, but I found it helpful to have it explained where that heave instinct comes from.

It remains to be seen whether adopting a general feel of an underarm throw is helpful. I suspect it could be. I have found time and again that a feel of "stay turned, start with the arms" works better, which is the same sequence as underarm. The question is whether "underarm throw feel" generates the better natural pivot sequence I want.

Per your point about contradictory advice, I now have at least 3 "either - or" classifications.

From TGM, there is the hitting or swinging distinction, based on different leverage models
From Hardy, there is the RIT or LOP release distinction
and now, underarm or overarm body sequence

Somewhere in there seems to be the reason you can get opposite advice in two pages of the same golf magazine.

Thanks again.

#82 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 05:59 PM

...

 

From TGM, there is the hitting or swinging distinction, based on different leverage models
From Hardy, there is the RIT or LOP release distinction
and now, underarm or overarm body sequence

 

...

 

I think the underarm body sequence is more a useful observation than a choice. All too often we see instructors demonstrating how concepts from other games apply to golf. I've seen several who talk about throwing a ball. All too often the motion is like a baseball pitch. That of course is simply not how the right arm moves in a golf swing.

 

I don't know enough about Hardy's ideas to comment. I know enough about TGM to stay well clear.

 

If you have the time, Brendan Devore's Be Better Golf blog can be worth watching. I find it interesting when he takes lessons from various instructors. Each one has their own perspective and ideas. Each one seems to get immediate results. And yet over time his swing doesn't look to have changed much.


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#83 333pg333

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 09:47 PM

Interesting. 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=7tLAWXZsAv4


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#84 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 01:40 PM

A well known player from an unusual angle. None of the wildness which characterised his motion at one point in time.

 

For bonus points watch both the timing of the unbending of the right arm and the movement of the elbow toward his side during the downswing. In particular note the position at left arm horizontal on the downswing.

 

I look forward to seeing a video of a top player who does not follow a similar pattern of movement of the right arm.

 

Edit: added Louis Oosthuizen below

 

 


Edited by Forrest Gardener, 08 April 2019 - 01:56 PM.

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#85 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 01:47 PM

 

I reckon anybody that well coordinated could swing pretty well with a more conventional approach. I wonder what problems he faced when he decided to pursue this approach.

 

Oh, and I would benefit from a version with English language subtitles :)


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#86 Forrest Gardener

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:48 AM

Here is Tony Luczak coach of former baseballer Jeff Flagg analysing Jeff's swing just before he won the world long drive. Power to burn!

 


Edited by Forrest Gardener, 10 April 2019 - 10:48 AM.

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