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Single Plane Swing


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#1 The Robinator

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 07:27 PM

Probably been done before, I don't know. What are peoples thoughts on the single plane swing as performed (is that the right description?) by Moe Norman? 



#2 Weetbix

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:40 AM

It seems to be thought of as a simpler swing but Moe was legendary for hitting thousands and thousands of balls

So I wonder if it's actually beneficial?

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#3 xrman1954

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 02:13 PM

I had a look at the Graves Golf website. He teaches the Moe Norman swing method. So I went ahead and ordered his DVD package for about $47 US and got instant web access to the material anyway.

 

After reading the manual and watching the videos I went out and tried to emulate the swing. I have to say  my drives were more controlled and iron shots were a being struck better. Early days but for me ( high handicapper 21) there could be something in this.


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#4 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 03:15 PM

I had a look at the Graves Golf website. He teaches the Moe Norman swing method. So I went ahead and ordered his DVD package for about $47 US and got instant web access to the material anyway.

 

After reading the manual and watching the videos I went out and tried to emulate the swing. I have to say  my drives were more controlled and iron shots were a being struck better. Early days but for me ( high handicapper 21) there could be something in this.

 

Are you able to give us a bit of an overview of what the Graves swing pattern is?



#5 xrman1954

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 03:31 PM

I don't think I am qualified to give an authoritative answer, but he models his methods on the teachings of Moe Norman. Moe used a single plane swing pattern. What it looks like at address is the arms and club align and the line drawn from the club/arm line goes higher in the spine. Supposedly it causes less spine soreness ( I need that). I still have a lot to learn, digest and implement before I can say this works really well ( for me), but initial results were encouraging.

 

Google it and see what comes up. I will see if I can post a link.



#6 xrman1954

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 03:34 PM



#7 Old Poppy

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 07:14 PM

My understanding of the single plane technique is that the trail elbow stays inside or on the ribcage throughout the backswing and downswing. This keeps the elbow down and close to the target elbow from takeaway to to impact. It also flattens the swing plane to the extent that the arm plane is on or under the shoulder plane. This swing method requires a good body turn and pivot during the backswing together with a tour type transition and body rotation during the forward swing. The issue with this swing for amateurs is any early forward movement of the right shoulder with throw the arms outside towards the ball during the downswing.
Tour players who own a one plane swing are Duff and Kooch.
That video about the extended arms is BS. The arms and shaft get on plane when the shaft lines up with the target radial bone regardless if the hands are high or low at address and whether the target forearm pronates or supinates during the backswing.
Anyway that is my take on it.
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#8 333pg333

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 08:48 PM

Also, didn't Moe have super large grips? Dechambeau also apparently has oversized grips and swings pretty much 1 plane (w/ pike). 

Always thought large grips made it difficult to square clubface but perhaps the body pivot is meant to cover that? 



#9 Old Poppy

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 09:23 PM

Also, didn't Moe have super large grips? Dechambeau also apparently has oversized grips and swings pretty much 1 plane (w/ pike). 
Always thought large grips made it difficult to square clubface but perhaps the body pivot is meant to cover that?

From memory Moe's grips were thick at the bottom of the grip and thinner at the top (butt end). Both he and Bryson grip the club in the palms. Bryson has the shaft above the shoulder at the top and supinates the left forearm during the backswing like Koepka and Dustin Johnson. The shaft doesn't line up with his radial bone until his hands stop at the top.
The golf swing has opening elements and closing elements. The trick is to balance them so that the clubface arrives at impact square to the swing plane with minimal rotation on all normal swings. Given a forward swing takes less than half a second, the closing phase needs to occur early during the downswing. This includes shedding radial deviation (thumb back on forearm) to wrist flex (bowed) with the target wrist through supination while keeping the trail elbow ahead of the hands until late in the downswing. A player can only do this if the transition is right and the spine/pelvis has great rotation. The pros make it look easy and natural, but they have been doing it since they were juniors.

#10 Zenstb

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 12:06 PM

Probably been done before, I don't know. What are peoples thoughts on the single plane swing as performed (is that the right description?) by Moe Norman? 

 

Rob there is a guy called kuykendal golf. He advocated Moe Norman swing. 
I know an older pro who tried it out and had great success. He also taught the theory to a young junior and was very impressive ball striker. Although they had thick grips and flat lie angle clubs.Although they both put in hundreds of hours to master this swing style..

 

If people are deciding on wanting to take on this swing style, this is the road you go down and stick with it. Although be prepared to put in the hours of repetition to make it work for you.

 

Although Rob the only tour player in 3D I've seen measuring hand path and club path, there is only one close to one plane is Bryson Dechambeau. He's not 100% one plane he is slightly two plane.  Everyone else is two plane.

 

What I've learnt is be yourself. Work with what your have and fine tune it. The key is make it consistent, if you are a slicer, learn to control it and direct the ball flight. Rather than wasting energy on trying to draw the ball. Spend energy and invest in lessons that will help shoot lower scores. 100's down, short game. Learning to get the best out of your long game with what you have. 

 

Personally I use to waste energy on kinetic links, this is great to hit the ball further although what is important ?  These days I've shifted my approach, to fine tuning people swings, mastering the good aspects of their swing and everyone has this key ingredient.  Put energy into what's important to playing more consistent golf.


Edited by Zenstb, 17 January 2019 - 12:10 PM.

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Coordination is the key to movement

#11 333pg333

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 05:38 PM

From memory Moe's grips were thick at the bottom of the grip and thinner at the top (butt end). Both he and Bryson grip the club in the palms. Bryson has the shaft above the shoulder at the top and supinates the left forearm during the backswing like Koepka and Dustin Johnson. The shaft doesn't line up with his radial bone until his hands stop at the top.
The golf swing has opening elements and closing elements. The trick is to balance them so that the clubface arrives at impact square to the swing plane with minimal rotation on all normal swings. Given a forward swing takes less than half a second, the closing phase needs to occur early during the downswing. This includes shedding radial deviation (thumb back on forearm) to wrist flex (bowed) with the target wrist through supination while keeping the trail elbow ahead of the hands until late in the downswing. A player can only do this if the transition is right and the spine/pelvis has great rotation. The pros make it look easy and natural, but they have been doing it since they were juniors.

When you look at Bryson D, you'd be forgiven in thinking he must float load it on the way down to initial some lag angle...but he doesn't really. Not much anyway. Compare him to say Sergio. Totally different. I believe Bryson uses his shear athleticism to get the distance and rotates his body very fast through impact. Not sure that this is the swing for lesser mortals. 



#12 Zenstb

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 08:34 AM

This player is whom they say is 1 plane swing. Let's call him BD 

Pic1: club path plane, Light orange back swing. Dark Orange down swing.

Attached File  dechambeau.jpg   62.46KB   0 downloads

Pic2: club path plane, Light orange back swing. Dark Orange down swing.

Attached File  dechambeau_handpath.jpg   58.58KB   0 downloads

 

It's very interesting and fascinating what we see on 2D and what the truth is of what is truly happening. We'd all agree on 2D it would appear one plane.

 


Coordination is the key to movement

#13 xrman1954

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 09:12 PM

look on YouTube for videos from Kurt Junge. He has a modified one plane swing method that seems reasonable to learn quickly.



#14 xrman1954

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 07:14 AM

Error: Kirk Junge is his name



#15 xrman1954

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:26 PM

I have looked into this some more.

 

Graves golf academy will try to train you into being a Moe Norman clone. It can take a fair time and may not suit everyone.

Kirk Junge used to work for Graves etc and developed a swing for impact position. It isn't that hard to master and worked O.K. for me.

He also has a version called the Minimalist Swing, which required even less change to an individuals swing. It is similar to the Channel Lock school , setting up with a closed shoulder line to target that promotes an in to out swing path.

Then I found Jim Venetos on YouTube. His school of thought is similar with a closed shoulder line to target and minimal body movement during the swing. It looks a bit suspect, but I am getting great contact and distance using it. I think my back is less sore using this method too.

 

For me the actual mechanics are less important than achieving reliable results and quickly. 






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