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Playing A Second (Or Third, Etc) Off The Tee


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#31 Fill the Dill

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 07:03 PM

I do find it quite humorous when someone chunks their ball into the middle of the lake on the par 3 3rd at Keysie. Even funnier when they declare the next shot off the tee as a provisional. I haven't seen any scuba gear on course.
NB the point of entry is nearly always a nasty lie so playing 3 off the tee is far preferable.
It seems that the correct practice is to say nothing and hit your 3rd. Rather than saying to my laughter that the first ball is lost.
The rules of golf are so dumb.


What about when you hit it onto an island?

#32 *Mouldy

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 07:10 PM

What about when you hit it onto an island?


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#33 OldBogey

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:22 PM

Question...when teeing off, can you decide to play a second ball off the tee, declaring it to be the ball in play...therefore even if the first ball is found (or for that matter, in the middle of the fairway), it is the second ball that is in fact the ball in play.

yes if you don't call it a provisional.
  

Ok...another scenario...and I'd still like the gurus to answer the original question...
 
You tee off. You play a provisional. You decide you want to use the provisional...essentially as you described...don't look for the first one. One of your playing partners finds the first one...despite you not looking..or not wanting it looked for. My assumption is that once found, the first ball has to be played. Correct?

If a ball that may be yours is found, you are obliged to identify whether that is the case. If so, & under 5 mins it must be played and the provisional abandoned. A 'mate' did that to me once, after my provisional was great. I had to go back to the tee and try again.  

With the risk of getting shouted down this is my understanding.
You can't declare a ball lost.
You can decide not to look for your original ball but if someone else goes looking for your original ball and finds it within five minutes then the original ball is in play
Happy to be corrected and probably will be. :)

 
FMD! FNQ is right.

If anyone finds the ball you are obligated to identify it as yours or not as the case may be. If you do not wish to search for your first ball let that fact be known. Also once you have played another shot with the provisional ball from a place closer to the hole than the original is likely to be the original ball is lost. Strange as it may seem you cannot declare a ball as lost. However your actions ( playing a second ball, not provisional. Playing a stroke with the provisional from a spot closer to the hole than the original ball is likely to be, before the original is found. or 5 minutes has passed.Or if you hole out before the original is found). There is no penalty to fellow competitors who find the ball that you did not wish to look for. Not by the match committee anyway.

Correct, of course.
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#34 Fill the Dill

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:24 PM

Lock the thread.

#35 OldBogey

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:25 PM

Where's OldBoozer to help make this as clear as mud?

  

I'm still waiting for you know who to chime in, even though it has been sorted.


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#36 OldBogey

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:27 PM

I do find it quite humorous when someone chunks their ball into the middle of the lake on the par 3 3rd at Keysie. Even funnier when they declare the next shot off the tee as a provisional. I haven't seen any scuba gear on course.
NB the point of entry is nearly always a nasty lie so playing 3 off the tee is far preferable.
It seems that the correct practice is to say nothing and hit your 3rd. Rather than saying to my laughter that the first ball is lost.
The rules of golf are so dumb.

Have you never seen one bounce off the water and be safely grounded on the far side.

As for you favourite island, what if a player found a row boat handy?
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#37 OldBogey

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:28 PM

What about when you hit it onto an island?


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#38 AAA

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:44 PM

See post #2 first page



You’re welcome

But that confirmed the redundant, unnecessary and possibly misleading words 'declaring it to be the ball in play..'


Edited by AAA, 10 March 2018 - 09:46 PM.


#39 AAA

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:52 PM

Time to declare all areas off the fairways as lateral hazards and to allow the club to be grounded. Would speed up play immensely.

That will be possible in 2019

 

Penalty Area
A penalty area is one of the five defined areas of the course and includes:
 Any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee), including a sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (even if not containing water), and
Any other part of the course the Committee defines as a penalty area.


#40 clarhamp

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 12:38 AM

  Just a side note to this comment. If you play a ball off the tee. Then play a provisional ball. fine. If you then decide that you do not wish to look for the original  ball & play another ball of the tee this would make both the original & the provisional ball lost.Played 5 off the tee.

 

No, the original ball is in play if not lost or OB: D 27-2a/4



#41 AAA

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 04:33 AM

  Just a side note to this comment. If you play a ball off the tee. Then play a provisional ball. fine. If you then decide that you do not wish to look for the original  ball & play another ball of the tee this would make both the original & the provisional ball lost.Played 5 off the tee.

No. clarhamp gives us the rule but in essence only the first provisional is lost.

 

The second provisional is only a provisional for the first provisional. The original is still the original ball in play.


Edited by AAA, 11 March 2018 - 04:34 AM.


#42 rogolf

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:06 AM

No. clarhamp gives us the rule but in essence only the first provisional is lost.

 

The second provisional is only a provisional for the first provisional. The original is still the original ball in play.

I think this is what pom was describing a situation where the third ball was not a provisional.

Regardless, here is the Decision:

 

27-2a/4 Three Balls Played from Same Spot; Only Second Ball Was Provisional Ball

Q.  A player, believing his tee shot might be lost or out of bounds, plays a provisional ball. His provisional ball is struck in the same direction as the original ball and, without any announcement, he plays another ball from the tee. This ball comes to rest on the fairway. What is the ruling?

A.  If the original ball is not lost or out of bounds, the player must continue play with that ball without penalty.

If the original ball is lost or out of bounds, the player must continue play with the third ball played from the tee as, when this ball was played without any announcement, it rendered the provisional ball lost, regardless of the provisional ball's location. The player would lie 5 with the third ball played from the tee.

In both situations, the third ball bears a relationship only to the previous ball played, i.e., the provisional ball.


Edited by rogolf, 11 March 2018 - 05:10 AM.


#43 AAA

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 06:45 AM

Sorry about that. I knew exactly what I intended to say. Got interrupted when I started to type and when I got back got the situation all wrong.

 

The second provisional is only a provisional for the first provisional. The original is still the original ball in play.

 

The third ball is only related to the provisional. The provisional is now lost,The original is still the ball in play.


Edited by AAA, 11 March 2018 - 06:45 AM.


#44 iRON MiCK

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 09:49 AM

This may or may not have some relevance tomorrow. For me. Maybe my group. Have Mercy.

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#45 INKY

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 10:00 AM

This may or may not have some relevance tomorrow. For me. Maybe my group. Have Mercy.

I think your group already started praying awhile ago...


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