1136 replies to this topic

[golfguy33]

I'd suggest that you check the specs and the differences between the Racs and the AP1's. The length gain in distance might be because the AP2's are alot stronger lofts, probably a full club stronger.

What's the difference in the shaft and the overall length of the two brands ?

Normally, unless you swing it faster ( lighter shafts & longer clubs ) or hit it harder with more timing, you won't change the carry & total distances. Modern irons have been strengthened to make you put more wedges, fairway woods and hybrids into the bag to cover the distance gaps between driver and irons and PW and sand-iron/lob wedge. 

No magic to be found comparing clubs that have the same specs, so what are the differences !

Jon... 

Edited by golfguy33, 16 April 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[Weetbix]

Are the shafts also a full club longer GG?

[hack2489]

Hey Jon and Weeti .. I appreciate your input.

 

Spec's for the AP1 716 - 7 Iron is 31 deg

 

Link here: http://www.titleist....s/irons/716-ap1

 

The RAC OS II - 7 Iron is 33 deg

 

Link here: https://taylormadego...cs/04_racOS.pdf

 

So, yes, as you note Jon, the loft is lower on the AP1's so, as I 'expected' they should go further. Hence my frustration yesterday!

 

As for length ....

 

AP1 716 - 7 Iron is 37" and I've been fitted for +1/2", so total of 37.5"

 

RAC OS II - 7 Iron is 36.75" and were suppose to have been +1", so total of 37.75"

 

And shafts ...

 

AP1 716 - fitted to Dynamic Gold S300 (130 grams) stiff.

 

RAC OS II - are Taylor Made T-Step Ultralite  (90 grams) stiff.

 

So, yes, agreed Jon, the stronger loft and in "effect" stiffer (i.e. heavier, shorter, better quality) shafts should be making the difference. It's why I "expected" a distance improvement and got frustrated on the range yesterday when the new 7 Iron was only carrying 125m.

[golfguy33]

A big difference in how the two shafts setup. The 90 gram lite will play softer than stiff and has a low kick-point, so alot more release and action, so easier to bend and swing because of its weight. The Dygold is a high kick-point, heavy shaft which relates to a low ball flight and plays stiff, so harder to bend and very accurate because you get less spin and action. Add in the less loft scenario and the differences will be apparent in the ball flight and carry distances. To me your fitter has missed the mark in acouple of areas, one being the shaft weight and kick-point, the other being the set-up of the irons versus your old gear.

OEM specs can also vary + or - and more often than not they aren't on the money. Your AP1 could be 30/62 and the Rac could be 34 degrees, making them totally different 7 irons.

Making a change in equipment should be for the future and how it will help the player go forward and improve via better components. Head design, shaft, flex, shaft weight, kp, length, lie/loft, grip, grip size and swing weight are several areas that all have to be looked at, to help optimize clubs so that the gains are to move forward and not stagnate.

Middle of the road changes often bring the best results and to go from one end of the scale to the opposite side usually adds a longer time frame process to marry the player with new equipment.

Maybe a shaft that has a mid kp at 110 grams in stiff or medium stiff would have been an interesting test for you and then the less loft might have worked a treat.

New gear should last you atleast 3 to 5 years and be fitted with that in mind as a minimum !

 

Jon... 

[hack2489]

TL:DR - what am I suppose to feel? Hmmm, it's all weird.

Reflecting on range session from yesterday, it's obvious the grip change (left hand WAY more clockwise, right hand more anti clockwise) is making me way more rigid and losing the free flow of the swing. Probably because its no longer arms and hands.

But...

It's a much more solid swing. More "square", more big muscles (chest torso) than "hands", so the wrists and hands feel REALLY solid.. No doubt, I'm holding club too firmly.

Getting the swing feeling good is weird, hard, as I don't know what its meant to feel like. I keep thinking, am I doing it right?

When I concentrate on shoulder turn, hips don't seem to move enough. Then I concentrated on hips and they go back too much? Or don't unwind enough..

Unwinding it, downswing, I then smash the club a good inch or more behind the ball... The fat drop kick at its worse. More so when I try to HIT the ball.

On good, ok, shots (not fat, not thin), contact is solid and hands feel square.

Many times, it feels like hands get "caught behind", which I believe is when my hips don't rotate out of the way.

I think I need to REALLY stop thinking, worrying about distance... Stop HITTING, or trying to HIT, the ball and just let the swing work, you IDIOT.

MUST follow process. MUST get sequence correct. MUST turn shoulder keeping weight inside right thigh. Must start swing forward from ground up, move, rotate hips, let arms move IN RESPONSE to hips and NOT themselves starting or making the swing.

Then, I can make a full turn and follow through.

Hmmm.

It's a very different swing. All from a change it grip! Amazing how the bio mechanics link.

[hack2489]

A big difference in how the two shafts setup. The 90 gram lite will play softer than stiff and has a low kick-point, so alot more release and action, so easier to bend and swing because of its weight. The Dygold is a high kick-point, heavy shaft which relates to a low ball flight and plays stiff, so harder to bend and very accurate because you get less spin and action. Add in the less loft scenario and the differences will be apparent in the ball flight and carry distances. To me your fitter has missed the mark in acouple of areas, one being the shaft weight and kick-point, the other being the set-up of the irons versus your old gear.
OEM specs can also vary + or - and more often than not they aren't on the money. Your AP1 could be 30/62 and the Rac could be 34 degrees, making them totally different 7 irons.
Making a change in equipment should be for the future and how it will help the player go forward and improve via better components. Head design, shaft, flex, shaft weight, kp, length, lie/loft, grip, grip size and swing weight are several areas that all have to be looked at, to help optimize clubs so that the gains are to move forward and not stagnate.
Middle of the road changes often bring the best results and to go from one end of the scale to the opposite side usually adds a longer time frame process to marry the player with new equipment.
Maybe a shaft that has a mid kp at 110 grams in stiff or medium stiff would have been an interesting test for you and then the less loft might have worked a treat.
New gear should last you atleast 3 to 5 years and be fitted with that in mind as a minimum !

Jon...

Cheers Jon.

I did all of it at The Golf School at Palm Meadows on the gold coast.

Shaft fitting was with Pete Harrington, he did irons and driver, then I did club selection with Matt. All completed using range and trackman.

Never tried any other Iron shaft.

It was the same one used to select irons. AP1s by far most consistent, forgiving and thus accurate for me. Yes, lower spin too than the others tested.

130gram shaft was recommended to help me control tempo.

Clubhead swing speed with 7 iron was showing up around 85 mph + / - a few mph each swing.

I'd only heard good things about Pete and Matt, and am confident they have it correct for me...

My swing is the bigger issue!

I appreciate your input. Thanks.

Open to thoughts and ideas.

[CaNadiAn MiCk]

Cheers Jon.

I did all of it at The Golf School at Palm Meadows on the gold coast.

Shaft fitting was with Pete Harrington, he did irons and driver, then I did club selection with Matt. All completed using range and trackman.

Never tried any other Iron shaft.

It was the same one used to select irons. AP1s by far most consistent, forgiving and thus accurate for me. Yes, lower spin too than the others tested.

130gram shaft was recommended to help me control tempo.

Clubhead swing speed with 7 iron was showing up around 85 mph + / - a few mph each swing.

I'd only heard good things about Pete and Matt, and am confident they have it correct for me...

My swing is the bigger issue!

I appreciate your input. Thanks.

Open to thoughts and ideas.

pete and lee have been great supporters of it our Isg nationals event each year. It's in Sydney late October this year.

[hack2489]

TL:DR - no idea why I am getting the ground FURTHER back behind the ball.

I'm stumped.

Definite shoulder turn. Definite arms turn with shoulder first, then up once club horizontal to ground. Finishing up behind head, back to target.

Can't seem to get torsion tension into inside right thigh. Right hip going too far back?

Unwinding, downswing... Hips first, then torso, then arms... Crunch, club hits ground inch behind ball. WTF?

Go easy. Pick it clean but, too open clubface, slice.

Grip. Tension. Too much. Swing tight.

Lighten grip, swing looser, but not solid if get contact.

Notice, tummy, belt buckle not at target, more chest forward at finish. Why? Lifting up? Dunno.

Need to video so I can see for myself.

Hmmm.

Use old grip, old swing, very armsy and handsy. Clean, puck it clean contact, but not solid. Not consistent direction.

Hmmm.

Video.

Hmmm.

Frustrating as

[Joe79]

Welcome to the Weekend Warrior and Hackers in all of us!!!

[Weetbix]

If you are turning but can't feel any tension inside your right thigh you may be reverse pivoting

[RobNewy]

I found after my last lesson somrthing like this.

My takeaway was to fast inside, so my coach got my more onto a straight back takeaway.

Felt bloody awful for a while and hit come vile fats and tops.

Settled down after a couple of weeks

Edited by RobNewy, 18 April 2017 - 02:47 PM.

[GPJ_Longdriver]

Posture, spine angle & look at de plane across your shoulders, (on the downswing)

[hack2489]

If you are turning but can't feel any tension inside your right thigh you may be reverse pivoting

Hey Weeti, can you explain what you mean by "reverse pivoting"?

[hack2489]

Posture, spine angle & look at de plane across your shoulders, (on the downswing)

"plane across shoulders"? How so, GPJ?

[hack2489]

I found after my last lesson somrthing like this.

My takeaway was to fast inside, so my coach got my more onto a straight back takeaway.

Felt bloody awful for a while and hit come vile fats and tops.

Settled down after a couple of weeks

My swing resembles something VERY vile ATM... Plenty of fat shots, odd thin one, but thankfully no tops!

SO many things impacted. Grip, takeaway (shoulder turn), pause at top, hitting through and down the line, finish solid. So many things!

Couple of weeks?

Hmmm. Been only a few days for me. Got new irons Friday. Maybe just have to give it time.