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#31 cunninga

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 06:54 PM

QUOTE: growler @ Aug 9 2005, 12:00 AM

Matthew M

courses surrounded by houses offer no inspiration at all.  I just cannot believe that this is called a links course as is nothing liks St Andrews Scotland, Carnoustie, Royal Lytham, etc.

The hype that all these courses are being marketed tries to suggest that they are better than the established sandbelt - in my opinion that just ain't so.  Housing developments with open space is closer to the mark.

Strange how on a windy day there are not too many on the course and yes I'm proud to be a fairweather golfers.  There are many better things to do than be on a golf course when the weather is inclement.

Furthermore, not all shares are resold for more than they were purchased and many seem to ignore capital gains taxes, sales commission etc.

I'll look forward to seeing the new Norman courses just down the road from Sandhurst in a few years.  The more competition the merrier, just hope there are enough buyers for all of the shares.

Why is the drainage going in so early after construction - something not seen????

Growler,

Firstly the North course is not 'Surrounded by houses', only 1 full hole is bordered by houses. Two others have a tee and green on the edge. The Champions course on the other hand will be.
Additionally no-one suggests the course is better than say RM or other Sandbelt courses, nothing comes close to RM as far as I'm concerned, especially here in Melbourne. By the way, how old are the sandbelt clubs, maybe in time the newer courses will be better, who knows.
Hype is there to sell memberships, without it you die, just the same with any other product.

Just to let you know, the comps are generally full on the weekend, and that means playing in the wind, which blows for the majority of the time. When did you come down to see, sorry not to see 'not too many on the course'?
Also, do you define windy as inclement?
Yes I have played StAndrews on a still day, and like ttitheridge said, it was there for the taking, and it was.

Yes, you are right in saying shares don't always make money, but I doubt the majority of people pay that amount of money for a profit in the future, more the ability to join a good club, and MAYBE get some money back when they finish playing. I know I feel that way.

True, the more the merrier, but overall I think we are getting to the stage where there are too many courses in Victoria (I Might start a new topic). The only way clubs will stay afloat is to have shares or make public rounds a very expensive option. We have to be very careful.

In regards to drainage, I think it was decided to hold off on a percentage of drainage until after a full winter and summer, remember Sandhurst opened in mid winter. Personally I think it was a great idea, as you cannot foresee everything.

BY the way, you still didn't answer whether you have played the course as yet?

unsure.gif



#32 growler

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 05:59 AM

QUOTE: cunninga @ Aug 9 2005, 08:54 AM

Growler,

Firstly the North course is not 'Surrounded by houses', only 1 full hole is bordered by houses. Two others have a tee and green on the edge. The Champions course on the other hand will be.
Additionally no-one suggests the course is better than say RM or other Sandbelt courses, nothing comes close to RM as far as I'm concerned, especially here in Melbourne. By the way, how old are the sandbelt clubs, maybe in time the newer courses will be better, who knows.
Hype is there to sell memberships, without it you die, just the same with any other product.

Just to let you know, the comps are generally full on the weekend, and that means playing in the wind, which blows for the majority of the time. When did you come down to see, sorry not to see 'not too many on the course'?
Also, do you define windy as inclement?
Yes I have played StAndrews on a still day, and like ttitheridge said, it was there for the taking, and it was.

Yes, you are right in saying shares don't always make money, but I doubt the majority of people pay that amount of money for a profit in the future, more the ability to join a good club, and MAYBE get some money back when they finish playing. I know I feel that way.

True, the more the merrier, but overall I think we are getting to the stage where there are too many courses in Victoria (I Might start a new topic). The only way clubs will stay afloat is to have shares or make public rounds a very expensive option. We have to be very careful.

In regards to drainage, I think it was decided to hold off on a percentage of drainage until after a full winter and summer, remember Sandhurst opened in mid winter. Personally I think it was a great idea, as you cannot foresee everything.

BY the way, you still didn't answer whether you have played the course as yet?

unsure.gif

Have played the course on 2 occassions, very windy each time and not many people on the course.

Why is it that on real windy days, the open courses are deserted. Seems like there a lot of people like me who prefer nice weather.

There are much better ways to relax on real windy days.

Good luck with your golf but Sandhurst ain't for me.

Just glad when my architect designed my house he realised that I needed drainage and didn'e see it as an after-thought.



#33 Jerry Springer

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 06:35 AM

Just a comment on drainage but, as Cashy has pointed out a couple of times, many of todays golf courses are built to help sell houses and make the developer money. Sandhurst is a just a place. As a result of this priority, the golf course gets the crappy bit of land with lousy drainage! So don't be too harsh on the designer they got stuck with that crap.

For the record I played The Glades a week ago, and that course was 3 metres under water two weeks before that, because they built it on the gold coast flood plain!! The second time it's been drowned in 5 years!



#34 growler

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 07:34 AM

Was due to play a round with as member friend at Sandhurst today, however, my friend who 'loves' the challenge of a windy course rang to cancel as he felt it was not enjoyable. Just too windy at 30knots.

Just glad we were able to play at my sandblet club with some shelter amongst the tee trees.

How did you guys who enjoy the challenging conditions of Sandhurst go today?



#35 Jerry Springer

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:53 AM

QUOTE: growler @ Aug 14 2005, 09:34 PM

Was due to play a round with as member friend at Sandhurst today, however, my friend who 'loves' the challenge of a windy course rang to cancel as he felt it was not enjoyable.  Just too windy at 30knots.

Just glad we were able to play at my sandblet club with some shelter amongst the tee trees.

How did you guys who enjoy the challenging conditions of Sandhurst go today?

Growler,

CBF'ed playing at my sandbelt club today, I preferred the challenge of the 6 club wind at the National - Goat Track (Ocean). Driver at the 165m par 3 third, and driver, 3w, 6i into the fourth made for a tough front nine, but 33pts including 19 on the back and a win in the comp by 2 was well worth the trip.

The views are still great despite the wind, and the people are nicer as well!



#36 cunninga

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 07:51 PM

QUOTE: Jerry Springer @ Aug 14 2005, 11:53 PM

Growler,

CBF'ed playing at my sandbelt club today, I preferred the challenge of the 6 club wind at the National - Goat Track (Ocean).  Driver at the 165m par 3 third, and driver, 3w, 6i into the fourth made for a tough front nine, but 33pts including 19 on the back and a win in the comp by 2 was well worth the trip.

The views are still great despite the wind, and the people are nicer as well!

Well done JS, I know the National and it is tough in the best of conditions.

I played 13th Beach yesterday, and had 30pts. Poor front nine, but better back nine. This would also be a course Growler would not comprehend as it is a links type course with plenty of wind.

One good thing is that there is one less golfer on the course when the conditions are not still.

And yes, the majority of 'sandblet' members are a bit of a bore.



#37 Jim

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 12:28 AM

QUOTE: ttitheridge @ Aug 9 2005, 06:30 AM

Well sorry to be the one to tell you this, but many of the top links or traditional courses in the world including

ALL

those mentioned above are not only far windier than Sandhurst, but also like Sandhurst, rely on that wind very heavily to maintain much of their challenge. Some of those can be almost benign for the taking if it were to be perfectly calm.

Tithers, once again I find myself disagreeing with you. wink.gif Its almost as if you deliberately set out to wind me up. sad.gif A typical links/traditional course usually has enough dunes/undulation/vegetation to offer a measure of protection from the wind in many places. Places like Sandhurst are essentially dead flat and offer practically zero protection. Playing these dull flat environmentally barren wastelands on a windy day is about the most unattractive golfing proposition I could imagine.

QUOTE: growler @ Jul 29 2005, 08:32 PM

Wrosloketr, I have been saving my pennies for a long time to join one of these sand belt  clubs and soon hope to be placing my name on a waiting list.  No course preference at this time.

QUOTE: growler @ Jul 30 2005, 09:20 PM

Preference listing is Yarra Yarra, Commonwealth, Kingston Heath, and maybe Woodlands or Peninsula

QUOTE: growler @ Aug 14 2005, 09:34 PM

Just glad we were able to play at my sandblet club with some shelter amongst the tee trees.

I didn't realise there was a decent course on the Sandbelt with a waiting list of two weeks or less. tongue.gif



#38 ttitheridge

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 08:10 AM

QUOTE: Jim @ Aug 15 2005, 02:28 PM

Tithers, once again I find myself disagreeing with you. wink.gif  Its almost as if you deliberately set out to wind me up. sad.gif  A typical links/traditional course usually has enough dunes/undulation/vegetation to offer a measure of protection from the wind in many places.  Places like Sandhurst are essentially dead flat and offer practically zero protection.  Playing these dull flat environmentally barren wastelands on a windy day is about the most unattractive golfing proposition I could imagine.

Hmmm, I'd still say that a number of those courses require wind to have teeth, and are far more benign without it. I think anyone knowledgeable would be hard pressed to disagree with that. My comments as you can see above aren't in defence of Sandhurst. They are in defence of wind as a feature at a number of good courses and how those courses are not as challenging without it. And that if one is to demean Sandhurst, they won't succeed arguing about wind alone. I made no reference to the quality of site at Sandhurst.



#39 Jim

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 08:21 AM

QUOTE: ttitheridge @ Aug 9 2005, 06:30 AM

growler,
Well sorry to be the one to tell you this, but many of the top links or traditional courses in the world including

ALL

those mentioned above are not only far windier than Sandhurst

Of course those courses require wind to have teeth, I never said they didn't. I was clearly commenting solely on your contention that they are

ALL

far windier than Sandhurst. With the exception of that preposterous rockwall, there is nowhere to hide at Sandhurst from the elements.

And have you played all those courses mentioned above? laugh.gif laugh.gif



#40 John J Jones

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 08:24 AM

Jim,

Out of interest, have you? biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

JJ



#41 Jim

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 08:33 AM

QUOTE: John J Jones @ Aug 15 2005, 10:24 PM

Jim,

Out of interest, have you?   biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif

JJ

No, which is why my comments were based on the nature of the courses, ie, dull flat environmentally barren wastelands vs a typical links/traditional course which Tithers mentioned before going on to make his definitive statement about wind levels at Sandhurst vis a vis St Andrews Scotland, Carnoustie, Royal Lytham.



#42 John J Jones

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 08:50 AM

Jim,

Never been to St Andrews but just spent 15mins driving the webcam at the Old Course on their website, www.standrews.com. Have to say it looked pretty damn flat - obviously a lot of small undulation but not too much protection and being so close to the sea I'd guess it gets winder than a site further inland.

Perhaps MattyM or Mac can assist as they have both been there.

JJ



#43 Jim

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE: John J Jones @ Aug 15 2005, 10:50 PM

Perhaps MattyM or Mac can assist as they have both been there.

JJ

WHo cares if MattyM or Mac have been there. The question was has Tithers been there? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif



#44 growler

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 09:02 AM

QUOTE: Jim @ Aug 15 2005, 10:21 PM

Of course those courses require wind to have teeth, I never said they didn't.  I was clearly commenting solely on your contention that they are

ALL

far windier than Sandhurst.  With the exception of that preposterous rockwall, there is nowhere to hide at Sandhurst from the elements.

And have you played all those courses mentioned above? laugh.gif  laugh.gif

Having resided in the UK for sometime thanks to an exciting employment posting and subsequently having the opportunity to hit a golf ball around courses such as Ballybunion, Royal County Down, St Andrews, Muirfield, Portmarnock, Royal Lytham & St Annes, Carnoustie, Prestwick, Royal Portrush, Turnberry & Royal St. Georges, the wind can be a torture. However, the architectural excellence of these courses is something to behold and they can be a significant challenge, even on a calm day. They are not as easy to navigate to a mere amateur as the professionals make them appear in major tournaments. Poor quality land cannot be developed to resemble these masterpieces unless many, many millions of dollars are spent.

Unfortunately, much of the land being developed for modern golf courses is boring, even after it has been reshaped.

If you guys like links courses, just make sure that you travel overseas to the UK and experience real history and tradition and walk the same turf as the world's best have and soak in the atmosphere. It is inspiring.

I think that a new appreciation will be found for real links courses and the pretence of marketing spin surrounding new developments on windy plains will become clearer.



#45 ttitheridge

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 10:19 AM

Thank you growler. Good post.

My initial point wasn't directed towards any quality or lack of at Sandhurst, or its site. I was taken aback that you criticised the wind, a point you have continued to make. If you have all this experience in the UK, you should appreciate the wind's importance to many of the great courses, and that with no wind they can be quite benign. In professional golf, windless days at The Open are among the lowest stroke average days in major championship golf.

Jim, If I am wrong, playing each Open course 100 times will never make me right. And if I am right, a complete lack of ever being in the UK won't make me wrong. I post what I believe and I am only too happy to be corrected if I

am

wrong. You may take whatever consolation you wish if my ever being correct is due to a lucky guess.






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