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Best private track in Melbourne


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#31 Golfgeek3005

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 08:21 PM

Golfgeek.

I did not say anything like ‘you need to be an expert in course design’
I was saying that you need to know something about course design and there is a massive difference between knowing something and expertise.
And the design/architecture at RM is so brilliant even less observent golfers who just have their eyes open should be able to appreciate the strategies.

KitFisto.
Kingston Heath green complexes are ‘ok but nothing special’

Can you give examples in Australia of ‘special green complexes’?
I would have thought 2,3,,8,9,10,11,12,14,15 and 16 qualify as some of the best green complexes in the country – and hold up well in world terms.

so I agree with you, I think it's a great course. It has it's issues, don't like the 1st at all (boring), the par 5s could be a bit longer and in tournament play, the endless stretch of par 4s to finish isn't my cup of tea. But on design, clearly the best course in Australia... My judgement is only clouded because I've played there with some golfers who either hate the course or think it's magnificent, but can't articulate why... I'm a bit of a nut when it comes to conditioning, nothing annoys me more than **** lies on fairways and crappy greens which is why I've dropped off the bandwagon somewhat... Heath takes a few rounds to get used to it.. the first time you play, the blind tee shots etc don't make much sense. Also the finishing stetch from 14 to 18 are some of the best holes going around...

#32 mac

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 08:47 PM

Golfgeek, I always liked the first hole as an opener - it is wide enough that you won't ruin your day at the start and it is very much like the opening hole at St Andrews. There are plenty of thrills to come. I am not sure how anybody could 'hate' the course - clearly those in that camp just don't get it. I played there on Friday and the lies on the West were fine - easily good enough to play golf on. Many of those who think the fairways are poor are swayed by the carpet like fairways of other sandbelt courses - but I never thought golf was best played off a carpet of identical and 'perfect' lies. There is only an endless stretch of par fours on the contrived routing of the Presidents Cup course - and the course cannot be criticised for something the PGA Tour was responsible for.

#33 Didntquitecatchit

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 06:49 AM

If you play Royal Melbourne and leave disappointed you know nothing about course design – and you are judging the experience by the service in the pro shop, the sandwiches or the condition of then course. If you are doing any of the above you are missing the point.

So the condition of a course has nothing to do with it??? Lets put it this way, you have a house which the architect did a great job but the thing looks bloody ordinary. To me a good golf course is all about the total experience.

#34 mac

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 06:58 AM

I don't expect many to agree but I have never found Royal Melbourne to be about the condition. The holes are so brilliant that it is always an awesome place to play no matter it it is in perfect condition, 90% of that or even 50% - and I have seen it at all levels over the years. Royal Melbourne has never looked ordinary - even if the conditions were less than optimal.

#35 KitFisto

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 07:24 AM

Can you give examples in Australia of ‘special green complexes’?
I would have thought 2,3,,8,9,10,11,12,14,15 and 16 qualify as some of the best green complexes in the country – and hold up well in world terms.
Mac, they are OK but the internal contouring doesn't dazzle. I find them very conventional with the somewhat interesting exception of 17. And conventional just doesn't cut it. Off the top of my head I can't think of a green complex at KH that is better than say 4, 8, 9, 11, 14, 16 or 17 at Commonwealth. Personally I think there are also more interesting green complexes at Royal Melbourne and Peninsula. They just don't understand that using short grass as a hazard makes for much more interesting play around the green. With the exception of when the lies are poor due to dormant fairways, the choice of approach shot is usually clear. The exception might be where Graeme Grant built those dips in front of greens, but even then the choice is generally to fly over them. They are lights years behind Barnbougle for working over a golfers short game. However, given the importance of mono cultured grasses and flashy bunkers to the determination of a courses ranking, Tiger will visit and say it is one of the finest courses he has ever played and its pre-eminence will be further cemented.

#36 Golfgeek3005

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 06:45 PM

I don’t expect many to agree but I have never found Royal Melbourne to be about the condition. The holes are so brilliant that it is always an awesome place to play no matter it it is in perfect condition, 90% of that or even 50% – and I have seen it at all levels over the years.

Royal Melbourne has never looked ordinary – even if the conditions were less than optimal.

I hear what you're saying, but condition to me is important. The true "royal" experience involves the best greens in Australia and pristine fairways, and this just hasn't been the case of recent times. I played a round with some hacks on the west course about 18 months ago and they kept flying the ball long, hitting terrible chips downhill but still keeping it on the green. The course was designed so that if you're chipping downhill, you're dead, but given how crap the fluffy greens were, it didn't matter what the green design was if you get what I mean? Also, hitting off what they were calling fairways between 1-2 years ago was not golf. Embarrassingly I played at Malvern Valley the day after I played at royal once and the fairways at the valley were far superior to that of royal, that's just not good enough...

#37 drgazgiz

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 07:01 PM

Played RM West for the first time on Saturday. Agree with mac. While the condition is nothing special at present, it is perfectly acceptable and the fairway lies were fine. The design of the holes, the bunkering and green complexes are just superb. It has the advantage over KH of not being as flat, which gives wonderful hole vistas (and some enticing options off the tee). Easily add it to KH and Barnbougle as the three most enjoyable courses I've ever played.

#38 mac

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 08:16 PM

Golfgeek We are going to agree to disagree here. The Royal experience is about playing more than half of the 18 holes on the West that are amongst the very best in the world. Nor do I put any store in the necessity for pristine fairways - decent is good enough and rarely have they been worse than decent - and thet faced the unique circumstances of 36 holes,two-grass policy and a 10-15 year drought.

#39 Johncantplay

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 04:22 AM

Hey guys, here is one for you... Do you consider the 2 grass policy flawed ? Or do you prefer the better lies afforded with this strategy during the winter months than pure couch, which as we know in Melbourne often provides thin lies ? Forget all the stuff about droughts & trafficking Poa, just judge on playing off the fairways over a typical 12 month period. Remember Royal thrived with the 2 grass coverage until recently, & had far less water to play with then.

#40 happytoshoot90

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 04:34 AM

The thread is called best private track in Melbourne and no one mentions metropolitan...

#41 Golfgeek3005

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 04:46 AM

The thread is called best private track in Melbourne and no one mentions metropolitan…

That's because it's not the best private track in Melbourne. The conditions there are awesome and I like the ambience of the place, it also sh$ts all over its neighbour huntingdale... but it's not royal or heath...

Hey guys, here is one for you…
Do you consider the 2 grass policy flawed ? Or do you prefer the better lies afforded with this strategy during the winter months than pure couch, which as we know in Melbourne often provides thin lies ?
Forget all the stuff about droughts & trafficking Poa, just judge on playing off the fairways over a typical 12 month period.
Remember Royal thrived with the 2 grass coverage until recently, & had far less water to play with then.

don't think there's any problem with the two grass policy all things going well, but obviously the upkeep (a lot driven by water restrictions) really hurt it... from a personal perspective though, I've always been a couch fan..

#42 KitFisto

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 06:56 AM

The thread is called best private track in Melbourne and no one mentions metropolitan…
The best windups are more subtle than that effort.

#43 happytoshoot90

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:02 AM

The thread is called best private track in Melbourne and no one mentions metropolitan…

The best windups are more subtle than that effort.

twas no windup my friend, just posing the question... I wouldn't actually know never played any of them, have never heard a bad word said about metro or the heath for that matter, Royal seems to have it's doubters though - If you can get me on any of them Mr Fisto I will happily provide you a full appraisal...

#44 Golfgeek3005

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 09:35 PM

The thread is called best private track in Melbourne and no one mentions metropolitan…

The best windups are more subtle than that effort.

twas no windup my friend, just posing the question… I wouldn’t actually know never played any of them, have never heard a bad word said about metro or the heath for that matter, Royal seems to have it’s doubters though – If you can get me on any of them Mr Fisto I will happily provide you a full appraisal…

if you search the forums, you'll see plenty of bad words written about metro eg. flat, short par 5s, unfriendly members, old ppl etc etc... none of those coming from me I can assure you... hence why kitfisto was thinking you were stirring...

#45 SJGC

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 02:42 AM

Kitfisto, So, you are saying that the green complex on 17 at commonwealth is better than 3, 10 or 15 at the Heath ? Actually, you are saying that NONE of the green complexes at the Heath are as good as 4, 8, 9, 11, 14, 16 or 17 at Commonwealth. Surely you are taking the piss.




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