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#31 Jarrod

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 09:33 AM

How many elevated tees are there Seems at least 2 of the par3s are drop shots, and more than one of par4s too



#32 Alex the Great

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 08:48 AM

17th (par 5), 18th (par 4). Thats all folks. A stunning golf course and a great experience to boot.



#33 Alex the Great

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 01:30 AM

QUOTE: Andre W @ Jan 2 2007, 10:29 AM

I went to a wedding with a couple who both worked on the property, and they said that the course would be lucky to get 12 players per week, the sad part, no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get them to offer me an invite. And I was particularly un-subtle smile.gif

I don't think many people have the authority to offer a game, it seemed pretty tightly controlled from what I could gather.

A few points of conclusion,

- I thought that hole no.2 was one of the best par 3's I have played, a real grab-your-bollocks-and-show-some-nerve type hole. Go left and you would be lucky to make double. Miss the bunkers right and you will have a nasty chip. Not ostentatious but very clever.I loved it.

- Grooming, condition and green speed were awesome. Loved the absence of ego in the green designs. Functional and creative but not excessive (take note, Huntingdale wink.gif )

- Surprisingly, a lot of holes that shape left to right, contrary to the view that Norman designs courses and holes to suit draw/hookers!

- A tough test of golf. You need to be on your game to shoot low, and if the wind gets up you will need to golf your ball.

All the best

Alex



#34 Jarrod

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:02 AM

QUOTE: Alex the Great @ Jan 5 2007, 03:30 PM

- Surprisingly, a lot of holes that shape left to right, contrary to the view that Norman designs courses and holes to suit draw/hookers!

Norman would have shaped a number of them whichever way Kerry told him to.



#35 Uncle_Leo

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:15 AM

Norman loves hookers.



#36 Alex the Great

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:49 AM

QUOTE: Jarrod @ Jan 5 2007, 08:02 PM

Norman would have shaped a number of them whichever way Kerry told him to.

Actually, Kerry never played the course. Wasn't well enough apparently, a great pity.

Cheers



#37 drew74

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:27 AM

QUOTE: Alex the Great @ Jan 5 2007, 08:49 PM

Actually, Kerry never played the course. Wasn't well enough apparently, a great pity.

Cheers

thanks very much for the pics Alex, not many of us commoners will ever get this close!!



#38 Jarrod

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 05:06 PM

QUOTE: Alex the Great @ Jan 5 2007, 09:49 PM

Actually, Kerry never played the course. Wasn't well enough apparently, a great pity.

I know that and it is a shame but I cant see kerry's hands off the wheel when the course was being planned. Do you know if KP ever did a lap of the course in a cart and if so what he thought? Harrison must have been given some feedback. thanks also for all the photos in the post too alex they are great



#39 porkchop

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 06:20 PM

QUOTE: Alex the Great @ Jan 5 2007, 09:49 PM

Actually, Kerry never played the course. Wasn't well enough apparently, a great pity.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for the tax dodging prick.

The course is a stark contrast to its surrounds. It looks disgraceful. Why can't designers of courses in bushland settings build a course that looks like it belongs there? I know sand isn't naturally occuring in those settings, but at places like Ellerston and Growling Frog the bunkers look like they have been dropped in from another planaet.



#40 Alex the Great

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE: porkchop @ Jan 6 2007, 07:20 AM

I wouldn't feel too sorry for the tax dodging prick.

The course is a stark contrast to its surrounds.

It looks disgraceful. Why can't designers of

courses in bushland settings build a course that looks like it belongs there?

I know sand isn't naturally occuring in those settings, but at places like Ellerston and Growling Frog the bunkers look like they have been dropped in from another planaet.


???? You mean sand greens and no grass on the fairways?! To me that's the only way it would blend in with the bushland around it.

Designers build what the people paying for it ask for, especially in this case.



#41 kpac

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 08:23 PM

QUOTE: porkchop @ Jan 6 2007, 07:20 AM

I wouldn't feel too sorry for the tax dodging prick.

The course is a stark contrast to its surrounds. It looks disgraceful. Why can't designers of courses in bushland settings build a course that looks like it belongs there? I know sand isn't naturally occuring in those settings, but at places like Ellerston and Growling Frog the bunkers look like they have been dropped in from another planaet.

sounds like you're having a cry to me porkchop. Doesn't prove much condeming a man that has now passed, so give it a rest pal, and i dont think you're in any position to comment, as i havent seen too much that porkchop has give this country. As for the golf course, he built it, PRIVATELY, in order for it not to have fool like yourself playing it. Good on him, i think the course looks great, and im sure there isn't a significant figure that cares what you think.

end rant



#42 lowflyinghawk

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 08:29 PM

QUOTE: Alex the Great @ Jan 6 2007, 09:38 AM

???? You mean sand greens and no grass on the fairways?! To me that's the only way it would blend in with the bushland around it.

Designers build what the people paying for it ask for, especially in this case.


To be fair, I think the point was that if the course was less shiny, it would fit in better with the surrounds. Many golf courses have greens with a brownish tinge and bunkers with brown sand. This course is obviously intended to be an oasis rather than natural.

I agree with the comments about there being too many bunkers. Some of the bunkers there are so far out of the way, they would be an extra penalty on top of what is already a penalty for a wayward shot. I agree that strategic pot bunkers would have been a superior choice for this course, especially given that the natural area is not sandy.

Great pictures, Alex. Thanks.



#43 porkchop

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE: Alex the Great @ Jan 6 2007, 09:38 AM

???? You mean sand greens and no grass on the fairways?! To me that's the only way it would blend in with the bushland around it.

Designers build what the people paying for it ask for, especially in this case.

That's clearly not what I meant. Trevor Grant wrote an excellent article in VGA magazine a few months ago basically saying we should be accepting brown as the colour for our golf courses. Peter Thomson has echoed similar sentiments. I think they are right. This golf course is just a bloated billionaires plaything. And surely someone someday will bother to come up with a style of bunkering more sympathetic to this style of quintessential Aussie site.

You are right on the second point - I part of the motivation was to show Lloyd Williams how it should be done.

QUOTE: kpac @ Jan 6 2007, 10:23 AM

sounds like you're having a cry to me porkchop. Doesn't prove much condeming a man that has now passed, so give it a rest pal, and i dont think you're in any position to comment, as i havent seen too much that porkchop has give this country. As for the golf course, he built it, PRIVATELY, in order for it not to have fool like yourself playing it. Good on him, i think the course looks great, and im sure there isn't a significant figure that cares what you think.

end rant

That is very strange. He was a tax dodging prick. He was an adulterer. And he inherited everything he had and did a lousy job investing it. Forgive me for not worshipping the goanna.



#44 andigold

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 12:33 AM

QUOTE: porkchop @ Jan 6 2007, 08:20 AM

The course is a stark contrast to its surrounds. It looks disgraceful. Why can't designers of courses in bushland settings build a course that looks like it belongs there? I know sand isn't naturally occuring in those settings, but at places like Ellerston and Growling Frog the bunkers look like they have been dropped in from another planaet.

So what would you have done differently Porkchop?

I'm a pretty new golfer and I'm learning all the time about GCA (mostly from on here) and I read your criticisms of this course and I wonder how you would make it blend.

Should it be bunkerless? Or less obtrusive pot bunkers? Browny grey sand in the bunkers?

Why does it matter SO much that it's obviously a golf course?

It looks fun to play and I often wonder why that is so far down the list for GCA afficiandos, which brings to my mind a post of Andrew's in another thread.

I would have no preconceived ideas or plans. I would simply purchase the best land, find the best 18 green sites & route the course where the land dictated, placing bunkers where the land allowed.

There you go. The perfect, politically correct GCA response.

So is that all that is allowed? If you build a course in the bush or desert it's never going to be any good because it looks different to the natural topography?

I would be interested in your opinions



#45 vman

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 09:31 AM

QUOTE: andigold @ Jan 6 2007, 02:33 PM

I wonder how you would make it blend.

Should it be bunkerless?

No, but far fewer bunkers. There are many bunkers there that appear to have no strategic value at all. On a course where sand is not a natural feature, any unnecessary bunkering only serves to visually detract from the course and IMO is a sign of poor architecture.

Or less obtrusive pot bunkers?

I would certainly opt for smaller, less obtrusive bunkers but not necessarily pot bunkers. And perhaps more rugged in design. The high, neatly-cut lips on Norman's bunkers puts them far too much in your face for my liking.

Browny grey sand in the bunkers?

Perhaps, but with fewer, less obtrusive bunkering the colour of the sand would not be as much of an issue.

Why does it matter SO much that it's obviously a golf course?

It doesn't really. It is more about the overall asthetics. Part of the pleasure of playing a course such as Ellerton should be taking in the beauty of the surrounding country side. When the course is not in harmony with its surrounds, then this becomes more difficult.

Cavernous bunkers filled with white sand sit perfectly well in a seaside landscape but not in an outback Australian setting.

Aside from the bunkering, there looks to be some excellent holes at Ellerston. Thanks for the photos, Alex. I really enjoyed them.

Mick






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