Topic: The Lounge / Can of Worms. ..... Quality of Life

Wonderful World

Thoughts with you Peg.

Ask yourself this question, how would your dad feel putting the people he loves through this emotional pain? And what would he do to stop you guys from hurting?

I’ll never forget the fear and emotional pain I could see in my families eyes Peg , as they seen me on my death bed twice. I wish I could have ended their emotional pain. That ripped my heart out how much they were hurting. I said to my family and have a will in place, that if I’m ever on life support please let me go, not for me, for my family, I would have hurt them enough and not prolong the pain any further.

Peg I may have been in shit loads of pain etc although from eyes my family were doing it harder than me, I accepted the cards that were dealt they couldn’t. Being on both sides of the fence Peg the emotional pain the family goes through is greater.( I experienced both sides).

Tough decision Peg my thoughts are with you,

Topic: Golf Instruction / What is the reasons that causes stalling

Zen when you talk about kink in the spine and lateral bending.

This would increase the difference between good shots and bad shots. Because obviously when you are kinking and bending you are doing it at different amounts every time.

So when you strengthen your core and train and turn around your spine better your shots would surely be more consistent because your turn is more consistent.

Hope that all makes sense.

Maxxon,
You got it :) the better we turn around the axis of spine the more consistent we become and our swing plane with improve.
The arms work around our spine will improve how we rotate around the axis of our spine our arms will move better around our spine. Our swing plane will improve.

The lateral bending there is some many factors that effect lateral bending. However with tour players have you noticed that their iron swing their movements are better than their driver? Why is that?

The reason is Speed, The average tour player swings a PW at 82mph. With their driver the average tour player swings at 113 mph. The driver they swing 31mph faster. Their is great force exerted on the body and the body is moving at higher speeds as well.
What we need to understand is with their irons just say as an example they only right lateral bend say 5 degrees at start of the down swing.

With a wedge say their upper body is moving at 550 degrees per second. At impact they may only right lateral bend say to 10 to 15 degrees at impact.

With a driver say their upper body moves at 800 degrees per second again only right lateral bend 5 degrees at impact with the greater speed they will end up around 25 or more degrees of lateral bending.

Ok so if you have lateral bending. The faster you rotate, the faster you right lateral bend, the faster your spine kinks. Which means the spine kinks earlier in the down swing. The spine kinking earlier, the upper body slows down too early in the downswing and cause the arms accelerate too. The end result the arms fly off the body.

You can have great ground forces and start the downswing, feet, lower body than the upper body. However that spine kinks the upper body slows down early and the arms accelerate early and slow down early, so the club releases. Their sequence is good their coordination and contraction come into play. Or it could be just a Strength issue weak core, weak legs the list is endless.

Mate there is so many variable the list is really endless.

With tour players speed really comes into play they can have a break down in their coordination patterns and muscle contractions as well.
Strength plays a massive roll with them and is why many of them hit the gym. Although they do specialized training for this. You wouldn’t got to your everyday PT for this they are general fitness and not trained for sports specific training.

Their core contraction could be weak and need condition to contract hard to resist or handle to rotational speeds of the upper body. Again the list endless it’s like asking how long is a piece of string.
Golf or any rotational sport the same muscle groups are used , we commonly hear the word golf muscles, although there isn’t such thing. We are all born the same, Tiger or whoever they conditioned their body move rotationally from young age.
The key is to condition the body to move rotationally

Regards the amounts of lateral bending changing what you will find it will be same amount happens every time for each particular club. Say a driver you create 20 degrees of lateral bending for that club you will produce this same amount of bending each time.

I hope this all makes sense, the human body is complex, this above we have no hope knowing what is going on using 2D video, eye or still pictures. We need to measure the rotations of each body segment to know their sequence and what is crucial is the ability to measure what the muscles are doing.

How to train it their is functional movement specific training in the gym and for coordination, their is specific activity coordination training. Which is training the body to coordinate rotational movement. How ever it’s crucial the training is specific to the activity.
Although the training has to be custom built specific to that athlete to improve their break downs and improve their patterns.

Tour players are unbelievable athletes I think people nit pick at them too much with out any great understanding of the complexities attached.
The further you hit the less room for error. A guy has his club face open 1/2 degree with who hits it 200 meters he will hit the fairway. A guy who hits the ball up around 280m plus he’s missed the fairway and most likely deep in the timber.

The longer you are the more accurate you have to be. The tops guys are truly thernominal athletes.

Topic: Golf Instruction / What is the reasons that causes stalling

Hi every one I put together a video to explain what causes stalling and why tour players stall.
I used a fellow iseeker as an example to explain stalling and moving forward to how we are improving this.

In the Zen thread or Cranbourne thread as a suggestion is to watch the other two videos to help you further understand stalling, I recommend watch the lower body mechanics. I know these video’s are long winded although take the time to watch them and you start to understand the complexities of stalling and what causes tour player do it and why this break down occurs.
I used 2D video to give you a visual as well However what the muscles were doing we used 3D technology and I will do another video in the future to explain muscular loading.
Enjoy the video:)
What causes stalling

Topic: Golf Instruction / Indoor lessons around Cranbourne/Frankston

This video is a continuation explaining Spine Stability, the break downs Smilesy had and the progressions of improvements with his Spine stability. In this video I also explain, what causes stalling and how this occurs regarding the upper body.
Smilesy Spine Stability and Stalling

Topic: Golf Instruction / Bradley Hughes Golf Talk-

Ignoramus
I already explained what he does in my original post. I stand by it 1000%... All my students know exactly what I mean
He doesnt drop his hands behind him at all.. His hands and Hogans hands and Sneads hands all come over the top of their backswing hand path. The club lays down behind its backswing path. Pronation and hold on aint the answer. That is a steer and not a three right hand sensation.

Brad this is interesting comments about Sergio, the comments about he waits to accelerate his pivot post impact is interesting. Where did this information come from?

In 3D measurement from several companies Sergio is a float loader the clubs drops in behind him.
As his upper body and arms are going back in his back swing his lower body just before transition change direction and start accelerating toward impact and reach top speed and slow down.

As soon the lower begin to decelerate or slower his upper body changes direction and start accelerating towards impact.

As soon as his upper body starts accelerating this causes him arm to quick change direction Float and his arms drop behind him. His Arms change direction the club float loads behind him drop into the slot.

As soon as his upper body reaches top speed they slow down and the arms then start accelerating into impact.

His lower body and upper body brace at impact / slow down. The arms reach top speed just prior to impact and slow down, the club release and accelerates into impact. Then he goes to a full finish.

Topic: Golf Instruction / The House of Zen

This video is a continuation of Smiles’s y golf swing.
This video explains the break downs in his lower body mechanics and ground force and the recent improvements he made with his lower body mechanics.
I also touched on about stalling which is a word we heard used a lot in the industry and how stalling can be an illusion om 2D.

Smilesy Lower body mechanics and ground forces

Topic: Golf Instruction / Indoor lessons around Cranbourne/Frankston

This is a video explaining the lower body mechanics and ground forces for Smilesy. I also explain how ground forces and lower body mechanics works.
Smilesy Lower body mechanics and ground forces

Topic: Playing the game / GPJ’s Journey to ... God Knows Where

Welcome to the world of flat Gaz, a bit of useless information is when people turn better around their spine we find their lie angles flatten out from 1 to 2 degrees. I went from 2 flat to 4 and now 5 in the wedges.
With your wedges though be careful you don’t get too flat with them . Keep your angle of attack steep with them so the ball stops for 100’s down.

When we get flat we drop it inside and not as steep for the wedges and then find ourselves very deep in the timber out the back , balls just won’t hold the green.

Also mate keep a sharp eye on your short game as well and you don’t get too flat and loose your angle of attack, the same issues pitches never stop.

There is Pro’s and cons of being flat my suggestion as time goes on maybe look at weakening your lofts. The flatter the swing becomes, the flatter the ball flight. You will see this over time.

Then what you do is start (lefty Talk) Left Lateral bending to try and get high and you are back to square one, same old swing habbit.

I found I had to weaken mine a few degrees,crazy enough they go further and better trajectory. This is only when you see you ball flat line Gaz.

Just keep that in mind and keep an eye on it for the future mate.

When you starting walking in the timber out the back a bit more often, is a great warning sign lol

Topic: Golf Instruction / Indoor lessons around Cranbourne/Frankston

fair enough….

Do you have a unit of measure as to what would be considered a success? to reference to your program.

put it like this, he has been to 1.6 handicap in the past 12 months, so what would you expect his handicap to be after the 12 months or hard work and training you have set him out to do? what would be considered a successful program result for him?

long, short, left and right = ALL FINGERED

Achieving a kinetic link is a unit of measure, my job is to improve his coordination, timing rhythm, consistency, gain some distance.
Also to condition is body and fitness. If we achieve this I’ve done my job.
The handicap that’s up to Smilesy, all you can do is guide people. It’s up to them to put in the time and effort to accomplish their goals. We can improve his ball striking however his short game skills lack or 100’s down skill etc lack his handicap won’t come down.
The ball is in Smilesy court, he’s given the tools it’s up to him to apply them.

Doesn’t matter if it’s zeno, a coach or whoever the end of the day we did nothing to write a book about, we provided the tools all the credit goes to the athlete, they are the ones who did the hard yards and they deserve all the credit.

Topic: Golf Instruction / Indoor lessons around Cranbourne/Frankston

fair enough….

Do you have a unit of measure as to what would be considered a success? to reference to your program.

put it like this, he has been to 1.6 handicap in the past 12 months, so what would you expect his handicap to be after the 12 months or hard work and training you have set him out to do? what would be considered a successful program result for him?

long, short, left and right = ALL FINGERED

Achieving a kinetic link is a unit of measure, my job is to improve his coordination, timing rhythm, consistency, gain some distance.
Also to condition is body and fitness. If we achieve this I’ve done my job.
The handicap that’s up to Smilesy, all you can do is guide people. It’s up to them to put in the time and effort to accomplish their goals. We can improve his ball striking however his short game skills lack or 100’s down skill etc lack his handicap won’t come down.
The ball is in Smilesy court, he’s given the tools it’s up to him to apply them.

Doesn’t matter if it’s zeno, a coach or whoever the end of the day we did nothing to write a book about, we provided the tools all the credit goes to the athlete, they are the ones who did the hard yards and they deserve all the credit.

Topic: Golf Instruction / Indoor lessons around Cranbourne/Frankston

good video,

scott can I ask, if the improvements through you have been excellent, what would the explanation for smilesy currently being the worst handicap he has been all year?

long, short, left and right = ALL FINGERED

Great question, combinations of things is going on, his short game isn’t up to his general standard and putting has been a bit off.

Although I expect his handicap to drift out a little bit for a while and this isn’t the focus right now.
The focus isn’t score, the goal is to translate these new patterns into his game.
Because his patterns have changed, his ball flight laws are changing, he use to be signifcantly inside to out and he would hit draws. Now his path is only marginally inside to out, his club face is now open to his path, hits a fade or bad miss push slice. His hand position or face position at impact is the same, his path changed, before the face was closed to his path( Just needs some club face control practice.)

He sets up natural for his draw (alignments right) and push slices he hits his ball deep into the timber.
At present he is working on his new alignments and working on some ball shaping. Some positives he’s making more birdies, his good shot are really good and his bad is really ugly.

This is expected it takes time to make adjustments and a ton has changed for him, he is also in early stages learning where things are still in cognitive stage and it will take time for him to trust and everything becomes autonomus for him, where he can just focus on target and score.

He’s basically going through a pretty normal process of development we have a 12 month plan and every thing is tracking well.

I

Topic: Golf Instruction / The House of Zen

I would like to say to thank you to Smilsey for the great effort. His results he gained from his own effort of putting in the time and dedication to train. We provided him the drills it was up to him to apply himself to get the results he has gained so far.

Smisley trained himself how to improve his body movements by doing the drills we provided him. Basically I guided him in the right direction Smilsey did all the hard yards well done mate:)

Topic: Golf Instruction / Indoor lessons around Cranbourne/Frankston

I would like to say to thank you to Smilsey for the great effort. His results he gained from his own effort of putting in the time and dedication to train. We provided him the drills it was up to him to apply himself to get the results he has gained so far.

Smisley trained himself how to improve his body movements by doing the drills we provided him. Basically I guided him in the right direction Smilsey did all the hard yards well done mate:)

Topic: Golf Instruction / The House of Zen

Smilesy gave me permission to post up his improvement over the course of a 3 month period. The training was over a duration of 8 weeks, 3 times a week spending about half hour each session doing his training.
Smilesy swing improvements in 3D

Topic: Playing the game / Smilesy's journey to scratch and hopefully plus

Hi Smilesy,
Here is a video for you on your improvements in 3D, I’ll do some more video’s explaining the lower body mechanics and ground forces, Upper Body and Muscular loading.
Smilesy

I would like to say to thank you to Smilsey for the great effort. His results he gained from his own effort of putting in the time and dedication to train. We provided him the drills, it was up to him to apply himself to get the results he has gained so far.

Smisley trained himself how to improve his body movements by doing the drills we provided him. Basically I guided him in the right direction Smilsey did all the hard yards well done mate:)

Topic: Golf Instruction / Indoor lessons around Cranbourne/Frankston

Smilesy gave us permission to post up his progression and improvements so far. I quickly put together a video show his data and improvements. I’ll follow up with further video’s to explain his lower body mechanics and ground forces, Upper body and muscular loading.

His improvement were over the course of a 3 month period. The training was over a duration of 8 weeks, 3 times a week spending about half hour each session doing his training.

Smilesy Golf Swing improvements in 3D

Topic: Golf Instruction / Comment thread on drills

Brad take a look for yourself in the back ground there is the ladder and tarp we put up blocking out the sun as it goes down. Sorry mate you got lied too when he was tested.

It’s when he lost me is when he tried to steal my knowledge I shared with him, to sell his own story to make money selling his swing theories and then told lies when I tested him and many other lies as well. That’s the Truth and why I walked away from him. A few others know the story ask them, it’s the truth mate.

Topic: Golf Instruction / Comment thread on drills

I probably am not creating any ground force by putting a bubble into a carpet between my feet during a golf swing moving forces in opposite directions between my feet without sliding my feet in any direction but by pushing them into the ground vertically and horizontally during my motion keeping total control of the orbiting club and never having any type of injury in 35 years of golf.
LOL…..as Peter Allis would say “remarkable”

Obviously you are going to believe and push what you think so I waste my breath …..however one quick note about John’s ‘cube test’ that was performed. I have yet to see you mention (and you have brought this ‘test’ up many times in many threads).....that the swings recorded were John’s first swings of the day- straight out of bed with no warm up… he did it that way to see how he performed cold…. I think that is a pretty important piece of information to leave out as results would have been entirely different if he had decided to hit 10 or 20 warm up balls before doing the test swings

Brad,
As I said I can’t comment on your ground forces I have no data on your swing.

Do you know that is a lie about testing John first thing in the morning. Because we put a up a tarp in the back ground to block out the sun shining into the camera lens as the sun was going down.

I tested John just as the sun was going down the day before, I have the video , would you like me to post it up so you can see this ? it shows the tarp in the back ground over a ladder blocking out the sun as it goes down.

I tested John the day I arrived and we were grinding 1 and 2 irons and also hitting woods into the valley.

John was surprised after being in the car for 7 hours I pulled out the 1iron and after 3 shots I was flushing them down the pipe. We were grind balls for well over an hour. Then I tested him, I always make sure people are warmed prior to testing them.

The next morning we looked at his data and went and played golf with Loren at Mare Island.

The times and dates are all recorded and the data being upload in the evening.

Topic: Golf Instruction / Comment thread on drills

What about the pics of me that I posted showing the forces at work with the carpet?

In our previous conversation about Ricky you stated he had a core weakness and in your post above you say he has a leg weakness.. ??

True although In both threads I said he had weak core and weak legs. There was other issues as well.

I can’t comment on your still pictures Brad or your ground forces I need to know your kinetic link.

I have seen John E do the same thing about 5 years ago roughly, although John didn’t have great ground forces . He did the same thing i think he used a bath mat and crumpled the same.

His lower body use to spin and slide . He didn’t use the ground to produce hip acceleration and hip deceleration patterns and then hips acceleration/deceleration prior to impact.

To start his down swing he superficially turned his hips .

To slow them down he slid his lower body, Then he spun his lower out through impact.

His hips spun out 13 degrees during impact. John didn’t use the ground very effectively.

If had better ground forces he would have been the best swinger on tour, his ground forces was one of the reason swinging never worked for him.

His body spinning out 13 degrees through collision is pretty hard to time to square the club face up every time which is one of the reasons swinging didn’t work form him.

Guys like Norman or people who have a effective kinetic link and effective ground forces etc, their hips at collision turn zero degrees during collision
Have a look at the graph below the hips which is red line and you can see the hips speed is basically zero at impact. Not perfect pretty good though.

Below in the kinetic link you can see the hips accelerate and slow down to start the downswing, just prior to impact they accelerate and slow down again.

This occurs from creating effective ground forces, how we push and pull against the ground this pattern happens it’s self. We don’t superficial try and turn our hips to achieve this.

Hips red, blue upper body, green arms, black the club release.

Topic: Golf Instruction / Comment thread on drills

Again Zen you never answered the question. It isnt a trick question
It is very simple with no data necessary. I have already answered the question for you
And like wise you can have good ground forces and not be in balance
Balance is MORE important than the other because like I have said quite a lot here- there is a golf club involved. If you arent balanced against the whirling club then you have no club control and will be forever trying to control the club with all the wrong movements

Brad,
Balance is a byproduct of good ground forces mate, as I said about Ricky, why do you think he is working on getting stronger in the legs?
So he can apply more force to the ground. For the speed he swings at he can not apply enough force to the ground,so he can resist the force applied to his body.

The speed he produces is far too great for him, he simply isn’t strong enough in the legs to resist it.
The stronger in the legs he gets the more force he can apply to the ground and his lower body mechanics will improve.
His core is another factor and another topic.

There is 3 general reasons people lose balance:
1) a lose of connection with the ground.
2)They aren’t strong enough in the legs to apply enough force to the ground for the speed they swing at.
3) Physical Limitations in the lower body

The above one and two is for a conditioned golfer,sometimes for a conditioned golfer three does come into play and quite common.

However for the average person who isn’t conditioned, physical limitations come into play. There is so many variables of lower body physical issues which effect people connecting to the ground.

They can having internal hips rotation issues, poor glut activation, flat feet has a massive impact.Lower back issues. The list can go on and on.

I can’t answer your question to be honest, I’m not sure how I’m suppose to be able to make an accurate diagnosis looking at still pictures or 2D video.

I can’t determine whether or not a qolfer has good internal hip rotation or they are producing an external hip rotation. You can’t tell this by still picture or 2d.

I can’t tell at what exact point they are losing ground forces, when does this occur, beginning of back swing, half way back, transition, halfway down, just prior to impact. The list goes on, so many variables.

I can’t tell with still pictures what their sequence is or if the coordination patterns are an issue. I need to know what their kinetic link is.
I can’t tell what their muscles are doing either which is crucial to know.

I can’t make an analysis from still pictures or 2d whether physical limitations are an issue or strength is an issue, I need to know the rotational movement of each body segment and the speeds each segment is producing plus the club head speed to determine these.

I can’t make an accurate analysis with our measuring a person in 3D there is far too many contributing factors that could be the reason to the causes.

I can’t answer your question with an accurate answer it’s would be a guess and an assumption at best. 2d and still pictures never truly indicates what is happening, the human body and golf club moves in three planes of motion, 2d only measures two planes up and down (straight lines) and horizontal.

Ground force I have no chance making an analysis in 2D. Shear Forces work in Z coordinates and X coordinates. 2d can’t measure Z coordinates.

I can’t answer your question?

Topic: Golf Instruction / Comment thread on drills

Nope again making false allegations towards me as normal, you try to make me out to be an bad person and you don’t even know me hack pro.
You know absolutely nothing about me and to make judgement of a person on a forum where there is no tone or ways of expressions, that sums it all up for me.

I’m not here to get business and not my interest either.

I put up information for free and there is many readers who send very kind and nice emails thanking me for continuing to bringing new information forward for them to read here on ISG.

I’m here for them, I apologize I don’t appease some people although good people know don’t judge a book by it’s cover. They get to know a person first.

They see through all the ISG BS and see I have a heart of gold and truly genuinely want to help people.

I’m here to help people who want to be helped there is thousand of readers out there who genuinely want to be helped, I’m here for them. They never contribute they just read.

To the readers thank you for reading and your support.

Topic: Golf Instruction / Comment thread on drills

Hackpro,
Rudness aren’t you calling the kettle black? You are one of the rudest and most arrogant people on here.
You have displayed how low of a person you can be on here and I have never stooped as low as you have towards people on here.

Topic: Golf Instruction / Comment thread on drills

Brad,cant g/pressures and forces all lead to a good balance?and indeed vica versa,......just saying..cheers

Golfs ABC…………..Always Be Cool……….Thanks paul Hart

Bingo Browman, Balance is a by product of ground forces.
The Centre of Mass of the body, is your balance point.
If you develop effective ground forces the balance will take care of it’s self. The faster you swing the club the stronger in the legs you have to be to be able to apply more force to the ground so you can stay connected to the ground. If you lose balance it’s easy to work out you have lost connection with the ground. Either it’s a strength issue or a ground reaction force issue.

Topic: Golf Instruction / The House of Zen

Cool, I understand it’s not a simple answer.

Just find it all very interesting.

Bare with me if I ask silly questions or ones that can’t be answered.
If you don’t ask you won’t know.

Cheers.

MaxxOn,
LOL, You are asking great questions, keep them rolling only too happy to help answer them.

It’s interesting learning how the human body functions, the easy part is understand how it the body moves. The hard part is finding ways how to train the body how to move effectively.
It took 25 years of research, testing and trailing and we are still learning better ways all the time.

Do you remember the orange whip?

We had the company send us their product, when we first seen it we thought, wow cool this could help with change of direction. The shaft being whippy we thought it would give a golfer time to engage their lower body first to start the down swing.
So we put it to the test and started trialing and researching. The end result we were really bumbed, What we thought would be a great training aid, it trained the total opposite to what we thought it would train the body to do. For some strange reason every golfer after doing a series of reps and then tested them hitting a driver started their down swing arm first lol. But it goes to show test things first.

We try all crazy stuff your never know unless you test it. We encourage our clients to upload any idea they have no matter how crazy it seems, you never it could be another drill which has it’s place to train a certain move or pattern or change a pattern.

Sometimes the most simple drill has the most impact. One of those things you never know until you test and research something to know for sure what impact a drill really has.

Topic: Golf Instruction / Comment thread on drills

Brad,
Here is another post showing patterns of tour players.
The red indicates where the most force is applied.

Ray this is the pattern tour players produce when they have effective ground forces and a kinetic link.

The force shear and normal forces produce the pattern above.
On the back swing the force goes to right heal, on the transition the forces goes from the heel and heads towards the ball of the right foot and force is applied to the ball of the left foot. As you keep applying for more force, the pattern during the down swing, the force increases in the right ball of the foot and left ball of the foot.
This produce equal opposite force reaction which produce ground reaction forces where the ground pushes back at you to produce hip acceleration and deceleration pattern. (hips speed up and slow down).

When you create effective ground forces this pattern happens every time. it’s how ground forces work.

scott@zenolink.com">scott@zenolink.com

http://www.facebook.com/zen…

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