Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / Australian Open Venue

The other question of course, do clubs actually want the damn thing. I'm from Sydney but think PErth et al deserve a crack, but I wonder why a private club would be interested - I have a few mates at Mt Lawley in Perth and they tell me that even if they could cope, there is spectacular indifference to the idea (correct me if I am wrong nfi). I can easily understand why a commercial course such as Moonah or just about any resort course would benefit from a lift in it's profile, and I can sort of understand why the likes of Karrinyup, RS, Metro, etc like to have the open as it gives the members a chance to ponce around, but otherwise I wonder why they would bother. Expensive, inconvient and if badly run, leaves you open to ridicule as we saw at Victoria. If I were an aspiring club I would want to see a few years of well run opens before I would let the AGu within a million miles of my course

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / Australian Open Venue

So the argument about Perth is basically economics. COuld someone then explain to me the external revenue breakdown for a tournament like the open ie/ revenue from spectators, revenue from local (Australian) TV, revenue from foreign TV.

The old Heinekin seemed to work ok at the vines for all those years when you were lucky to get 10 people through the gates, presumably due to Asian TV rights. Crowd turnout at Karrinyup for the JWC was excellent. I refuse to beleive the argument until I actually see some figures. I would also like to hear from a sposnor to know what it costs them and what they expect to get out of it. Problem of course is that while Perth is home to plenty of large corporates, they tend to be mining/engineering type corporates rather than retail, and so don't really see any benefit from this sort of sponorship.

Tee times were brought forward at the JWC so that play finished at 2.30pm on the weekend to suit Sydney/Melbourne, and that didn't annoy us too much although it meant that the sea breeze didn't have time to get up and we thus saw 30 under from Els. Ok, Karrinyup is the only option logistically ( I am a member at Mt Lawley and it just wouldn't fit), be if we are only taking once every 10 years, then we are hardly going to get tired of it.

Topic: Golf Talk / What does a Golf Club Membership usually get you?

Can't be sure, but you probably just need a credit card to play most resort courses, be they Qld or elsewhere. However to visit any of the more traditional private courses, anywhere in the world, a handicap card is generally required, the rationale proabbly being just to ensure you know what you are about and won't dig too many holes. As pointed out however, an AGU handicap can be obtained from any little country track just as well as from Royal Sydney

Topic: Golf Talk / Course Quality v logistics

See what Marsh is doing and Cottesloe and disagree with me. But just a personal view.

I doubt Kennedy Bay could handle it - far better course, but probably not suited to a tournament, again due to logistics constraints. It is a bit like the NSWGC of Perth, the best course in town, but out of the way, and only a small road in, not much of a clubhouse and no on course hotel as at the Vines. Course is also spread out, but not as bad as the Vines, but fairways are separated by dunes and from what I understand they are regarded as being a tad environmentally sensitive and probably not able to tolerate crowds scampering all over them, especially in Jan/Feb when they would be dry and vulnerable. A pity really as it would be fun. Unfortunatley nothing in town of any note as LK is the only metro course with enough space around the 18th to handle the tents.

Topic: Golf Talk / Course Quality v logistics

As most would be aware, the Johnnie Walker is coming back to Perth next year, but to the Vines, not Lake Karrinyup where is was played twice a few years back.

Concerns me as a local because the Vines is a shocker as far as the foot slogging patron is concerned - miles from town, hot as the fires of hell, and as a housing development course, you have to walk the whole bloody thing (about 10km) rather than being able to pop through the tree line to see another hole. In addition I wouldn't give 5 cents for it (or indeed any Graham Marsh course) as a golf course, but thats a personal view.

Karrinyup is no gem either, but at least it is in town, is in one paddock and near enough to the coast to get the sea breeze.

I can only think this is a victory for commerce over common sense. Presumably the people at the Vines offered some inducements, the TV viewers don't care about the heat or the long walk, and as a public facility, the sponsors and VIP's can have a hit on the following Monday, where as LK would tell them to get stuffed.

I guess commerce always wins in the end (Moonah Links being a good example) but I won't be going out to watch - just a pity we don't have an obvious tournament venue in town such as Royal Melbourne or Royal Adelaide.

Topic: Ask Golf Guru - Golf Instruction / Downswing

I sympathise, I too am one of those people who can't think of too many things at once. I really have to think about linking my lower and upper body to get the hips moving first, but then forget about what my arms and hands are doing (and vice versa). The thought I use to keep my wrist cock as long as possible is to think about pulling the grip down toward the ball and the angle takes care of itself. If I think about keep my wrist cock then I end up doing a Sergio and keeping it cocked too long and then having to make a desperate snap to get the club to the ball, and then it goes anywhere.

I do agree however that having the same swing plane up and down is preferable (two extreme examples are Tom Kite and Stuart Appleby) as you have more chance of keeping upper and lower in sync. Having a big shift in swing plane might work for Sergio, Fred Couples et al, bu they hoit a few more balls than most of us. Dropping the hands to get the swing inside can tend to generate a big hip release and this is generally a trouble for hackers as your lower body gets too far ahead of the hands and can block you out and you have to then start making all sorts of mid swing corrections to actually hit the ball. See recent stories on Tiger's new swing - he has slowed his hips down to allow his hands to get past.

Topic: Golf Talk / What does a Golf Club Membership usually get you?

You also get an AGU handicap, which is essential if you travel domestically or internationally - try getting on St Andrews without one.

But yes, you have to play a lot of golf to make membership worthwhile, $1500 p.a is $28 per week, I travel a lot so don't play weekly, so my average cost per game is a lot higher, but I feel this is worthwhile as the quality of the course, proximty to home, good mates and reciprocal arrangements make it worthwhile. Mind you I joined my club back in the days before joining fees got out of hand, and that tends to be the killer these days.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / The Redan?

Can't really say as I haven't played it since the renovations of the last 2 years, although I do drive by from time to time and the bunkering certainly seems to be far bolder than it was and the holes around the clubhouse have been changed dramatically. Don't know about Alex Russell, but he was across in Perth at the right time working on Lake Karrinyup so I suppose it is possible he popped down the road to look at Yokine.

From what I remember it was a nice course. Quite hilly (thus a place to avoid of a stinking hot Perth summer day) and a bit squeezed into a smallish piece of ground, but seems to make good use of the terrain and has plenty of interest. Kikuyu fairways which is a bit of a pet hate with me, but I am told they keep them under control. Nice place.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / The Redan?

Was originally designed by a guy called David Anderson who was the pro at Royal Perth at the time - about 1927. However only the layout remains with every committee and his dog since having a crack at making changes. Michael Coate (he of Kennedy Bay fame) is currently in charge of getting rid of the mish mash of styles and putting together something consistent in terms of greens and bunkering style. Half finished and he has done a great job, but the course is a bit odd at the moment, with half the holes looking like something out of the Melbourne sand belt and rest a bit ordinary. Unfortunatley the committee have decided to have a year off from renos to avoid remodelling fatigue so it won't be finished until 2007. Also getting rid of a couple of hundred trees, so perhaps taking it slowly is useful so that we don't get hairy greenies chaining themselves to the front gate.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / The Redan?

As Andrew says, it is no longer common possibly to a certain extent because modern mowers can get greens so fast that the Redan concept falls apart. We saw this at Shinnecock where anything hit with a bit of draw ended up in the the left sand. Basically, long iron into a backward sloping green where you have no running option, might have worked on a slow old Lothian green, but would be unplayable on most modern surfaces

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / The Redan?

I think it might have years ago, but well before my time, I think at one point it might even have had rail sleepers facing the left but presumably these were removed as too many old buggers were killed by rebounds. Redesigned last year, and although a better hole, no nearer to the real thing than it was. No one has yet to come up with a better name.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / The Redan?

We have one at Mt Lawley in Perth, or at least that is what it is called on the card, but as it has been fiddled with so often over the years I don't know it would hold up as a great example of the type if endeed it ever did. Long iron over a valley with huge bunkers front left, does require a draw in but not the degree of right to left slope that you see on the real thing or that example at Shinnecock.

Topic: Golf Architecture / Sydney grass recommendations

You should look at the newer Couch varieties such as Santa Ana and Winter Green (name would suggest they hold up over winter), they do have dormant period, but very brief. My course in Perth is in the middle of changing over to Santa Ana from Mongrel Couch (name they give to the various strains of old native couch). IF this stuff can handle a Perth summer it should manage Sydney. THey even suggest that it is so rampant that it will give Kikuyu a run for it's money - I will take this with a grain of salt. However if you have Kik, getting rid of it will be a bugger. We had to remove a large area from one of our fairways about 10 years agao which basically meant removing the top 18 inches of soil and taking it away to the tip to ensure nothing regrew. And ever since we keep aclose eye for any rre-emergence as bits are always blowing in over teh fence from surrouding parks etc. Members are encourgaged to carry little red flags and stick them in the ground whenever they spot a sprig, the ground staff will then come out and lay waste to it.

Santa Ana is great stuff, firm and fast, producing a lovely crisp turf - however that is on sand based farways. It can become too hard on the clay you have in Sydney. Whcih is one thing in favour of Kik in Sydney in that it does produce a thicker mat to cover the clay.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / Encouraging a Tree Removal Program

Mt Lawley in Perth is doing this now.

First step was to commission a comprehensive report by Greening Australia on all the trees on the course to identify those with conservation value and those with weed potential. Fortunately for us, most of the trees we wanted to remove - but not all - were introduced, have weed potential, use vast amounts of water or crowd out native species.

So basically, baffle em with science, but also be prepared to give a little and save the odd little shrub. It is alsways an emotional issue, so you need facts on your side. We are about to chop down 20 or 30 mature river gums (introduced from NSW) to open a hole up, because the alternative would have been the removal of two scrubby little native blackbutts that just happended to be a couple fo hundred years old. The hle would have been vastly better with removal of blackbutts, but the commitee wisely decided that making this concession early on would help them win the war in the end.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / why all the unnecessary change at the local golf course

Yes, Mt Lawley.

Even though we are well thought of, our waiting list is not what it once was primarily because the resort style courses (Vinces, Joondalup, Kennedy Bay, Araluen) are all only about 45mins from the CBD in Perth and many punters no longer see the value in paying big subs for a metro club when they can pay for play on these other tracks. I can see their point.

Mt Lawley therefore saw the weaknesses in it's course and also saw that at all costs it must act early to avoid getting on the slippery slide down from which it is very hard to get off. Once a course loses it's gloss, the ability to attract subs and joining fees reduces which in turn reduces the finances available to fix the problem. Whether the changes turn out to be positive of course is the big risk and this is the question the committe must ask, is it better to do nothing or do the wrong thing.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / why all the unnecessary change at the local golf course

I think you have confused two separate questions...firstly, why do it, secondly if you are going to do it, how do you ensure you do it well.

My club in Perth is about to embark on it... their answer to the first question is that they must do it to remain financially viable ie/to attract the necessary subs and joining fees the course must be considered to be worth it by the existing and potential members. This problem might not exist in Sydney or Melbourne, but Perth private clubs are under pressure from the easily accessible daily fees course around the place. The bar has been lifted and the lesser private clubs are stuggling a bit.

The answer to the second question... I guess time will tell.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / Your fav golf hole

The 14th, St Andrews Old, probably the best example of cross country golf I have ever seen. One of the few holes you could really play every day for a year, and take a different route each time.

15th - The Coast Golf and Recreation Club (at least I think it was the 15th, it has been a few years) - short par 4, driver over a chasm, cliff down to the pacific on the left, jungle on the right. Maybe not the greatest strategic hole in the world but one of the prettiest.

Topic: Your Favourite Golf Courses / St George's

So how would some of you budding architects rate St George's from a modern architectural point of view.

Build it today and you would be lynched, but it is generating some damned entertaining golf.

Not necesarily the sort of place you would want to play on every Saturday morning as it would seem to break just about every rule of good sense and fairness, but ends up being an infinitely superior course as a result.

Played my home course this morning, with which I am normally quite happy, but it seemed to pale compared to what I had been watching only hours before.

Topic: Golf Talk / British Open - Perth Coverage

Don't be too sure about Foxtel - read todays paper. Ch9 nationally has first rights and Foxtel can only televise when 9 is not. So even though the local 9 has knocked it back, the deal remains in place and local Foxtel telecast will only be the first few hours of each days play. SO we in effect get nothing

Topic: Golf Talk / British Open - Perth Coverage

Alas, I just confirmed it.

I urge all local fans to call and give them a serve on 9449 9999, saving most vitriol for the brain dead Programming Manager Robert Pedretti.

Letters to

Channel 9
P.O Box 99
Turat Hill 6939

If enough people let him know what a twit he is, perhaps there is time to get it changed.

Interstate help would be greatly appreciated.

Topic: Golf Talk / British Open - Perth Coverage

So where does the local Ch9 boss live, I feel inclined to pop around for a chat.

Can we organise a mass boycott of all things Ch9, not too difficult as it is a dog of a station anyway, but to forgo the biggest sporting event in the world this weekend is really making it obvious.

Topic: Golf Talk / Pro's Handicap

Well it is relevant, at least in Australia. A lot of our touring pros maintain membership of their home club and do play in the weekend comps from time to time when they are home, and they need something to compete with.

It is not an official AGU handicap of course, but the club is permitted to issue one for it's own internal use. As far as I am aware, the AGU gives the club the right to allow a professional member to compete in and win any internal comp with the exception of monthly medals and club championships.

Topic: Golf Talk / Cheaters

As with anything it is a matter of degree. We had a bunch of guys at my club from a certain country that shall remain nameless across the Indian ocean. They alway played together as a closed foursome which in itself is not really in the spirit of the club. One week one of the four was sick and someone else joined in. THis new guy found that these guys were handing out gimmes to each other all day during club comps. He promptly complained to the committe and they were pulled into line; their excuse being that this was what they were used to back home.

No harm done except these blokes had won the eclectic the previous few years and god knows how many other Saturday prizes.

So you never really know what is going on out there.

Topic: Golf Talk / Keeping the vermin of our great golf courses.....

Buckley's chance of stamping it out I'm afraid. The dollar is too important to most public tracks for them to give paying customers a hard time as long as they are not actually causing physical bodily harm to other golfers. And then of course we can't really expect the pimply faced youth behind the counter to stand up to the sort of people who behave like this.

This ultimately is the distinction between public and private. The better private clubs can police this simply because they have the ultimate big stickof throwing people out if they don't toe the line.

So get over it and find that $10k joining fee (is that really what it costs in Sydney?)

Topic: Golf Talk / Natural talent?

Remember Tiger's TV add where he bounces the ball on his wedge about 100 times and then snots it down the fairway. I think that would suggest a bit of hand eye coordination.

When you are talking about only 1 or 2 shots per round as the difference between millionaire and scratching to make a living, it really is these little things around the margin that make the difference.