Topic: Croker Golf System

STEWART GINN and PETER FOWLER gaining some insights into “how to build accuracy in putting” from Peter Croker at The Dunes.

Topic: Croker Golf System

Dear Paul,

CGS is more than just an explanation of a solid set of basics for building an efficient and orthodox golf swing.

Croker Golf System includes a state of the art Graduated Learning Program that builds accuracy and a level of consistency that we all are looking for.
Sasha Novak has written a Book expanding on the Laws of Accuracy that are not to be found in any other golf teaching program that I have ever seen.
It has been very interesting to see the progress of several students combining both CGS and Sasha’s Laws of Accuracy. I now have 4 students who have reached over 2 meters and holing 100+ putts in a row – 2 students have made it out to 3 meters holing over 5o putts in a row.
With the Pitching program students are having stellar results also.

Peter Fowler reports significant improvement in his putting after only a month on the program.
I would love to hold a “Laws of Accuracy” Iseekgolf Workshop at the Dunes when the interest is there.

Kind regards,

Peter

PETER FOWLER and SASHA NOVAK after a solid 1 Day Coaching Session

Topic: Croker Golf System

Dear Styles,

Thanks for posting your swing here.

Not too bad! – considering the hang over!

To handle any confusion you may have about what is the best thing for you to do – i would get to understand thoroughly “the pivot” and what causes a ‘firm left side’ through impact.

CGS has an answer that works and is minimal stress on the body – especially the back!

Happy New Year,

Peter

Topic: Croker Golf System

Therein lay the beauty of TGM. It caters for all sorts of people, shapes and sizes. CGS is just one of those patterns held within.

Topic: Croker Golf System

Dear Toto,

I am not sure what age you are or if you have ever played tournament golf at any level on any Tour

Anyone who plays at a high level of competence would be in awe of what Simon has done this last year.

Simon is only 57 and has posted lower scores this last year on average than his first season as a Senior when he won a European Senior Tour event also.

Anyway Simon has just posted some extra data on his thoughts on “Stack & Tilt” and I thought this might be of interest to those who are interested in CGS and how it rates against other methods as seen by those who have tested out CGS thoroughly.
The Croker Golf System is founded in TGM principles – the geometry of the circle – the physics of Rotation – and geometric alignments of the components that maximize power and control and minimize stress on the body and brain.
Simon applies CGS very well and i anticipate him to do even better in 2008.

Here is Simon’s extra thoughts on “Stack & Tilt.”

Since my first post on “Stack & Tilt” I’ve had a few more thoughts on the subject in question.
My over-riding problem with the S & T method is this – Why would you not want to use the strong rotary force in the downswing?
When I first saw the explanation of how the S & T system works it was like taking a trip back to the good old 60’s. You remember, flower power, The Momma’s & the Poppas, hippies and the dreaded reverse C in the golf swing.
Well, this strong lateral hip slide advocated by the S & T method really reminds me of the golf swing of that era. I never in my wildest dreams thought the reverse C would ever be reinvented and renamed.
It seems to me that the only reason a reverse C would be required in the downswing is because the golfer hasn’t coiled properly in the backswing and therefore the arms and hands are in the wrong position at the top of the backswing.
If anyone reading this is not too sure what I’m getting at, then I would strongly urge that person to invest a few dollars in the CGS levels program so that you’ll get a good understanding of the golf swing as a whole. Not just a few bits here and there. The golf swing IS a whole motion and needs to be taught and understood as a WHOLE motion. NO SHORTCUTS !!!!
Personally, I’ve worked with Peter for some years now but I must say I’ve found his “Levels Program” to be the most enlightening sessions I’ve had with him. I’ve learnt so much and I’m continuing to learn as I go through the program.
So well done Peter. I, for one, have learnt a lot and I’m certain I’ll turn this new found knowledge into $$$’s during my 2008 season on the European PGA Senior’s Tour.

Simon Owen

Topic: Croker Golf System

Good on an old timer winning the 2007 Senior Pizza Open.

Topic: Croker Golf System

To All looking for differences between the Croker Golf system and other methods and Systems of Instruction, here is a qualified critique from a TGM trained Tour Professional in Simon Owen. Simon won the Italian Senior Open this year – 2007 – and his golf game is improving with age – due to his use of the Croker Golf System.

From Simon Owen – European Senior Tour Member:

Best wishes,

Simon Owen

Topic: Croker Golf System

Dear Styles,

Looks like with such movement in the left hand, you are going to have variation in clubhead and clubface control from time to time. The “short thumb” goes along with a more angled club grip across the left hand. This places the grip of the club more under the control of the fingers where more feel and clubhead speed can be realized.

Perhaps more detail can be gained here.

Nicky Rombaldi is in Ireland and can help you check this out. His email address is copied here. Nicky Rombaldi PGA [info@golfschool.ie]

Merry Christmas and a Great Golfing New Year,

Peter

Topic: Clear Keys

That last sentence of yours Carey is a classic. No stress = we are dead, literally. We are always stressed at a molecular level.

Topic: Clear Keys

Thanks Carey.

Can I get your opinion on the HeartMath people?

You might want to view the article I wrote for ISG a while back that alluded to Heart Math along with a number of other resources.

http://www.iseekgolf.com/golfpsychology/5796-comprehension-an-untapped-area-for-golfers

Heart Math is very interesting and does provide worthwhile information. My take is that information alone does not necessarily produce an action plan. Unless I misread what is said about it by both the originators and those who have adopted it as a remedy for stress, that takes it too far and is simply not supportable in practice.

What I do not see is any reference in all the promotional material to key issues in stress management as set forth by Hans Selye, MD. As far as I can see, no one else has described the essence of stress or the management of it better than he did.

So my “bias” starts with his work. That puts Heart Math on the peripheral list of items that surely can help informationally, but have no useful actionable contribution to make. It’s not bad, maybe even better than some of the other touted high tech items like the “Stress-Eraser,” (and others). None of them is the hub of any wheel, though they may represent “spokes” in the wheel.

It’s a bit like the EKG, which can report on heart attacks in progress, but can’t do anything to prevent or cure them. That doesn’t make the EKG “bad.” Just limited in usefulness.

BTW, one cannot erase stress. It can only be managed.

Topic: Clear Keys

(from Styles) I agree with you that some people can get caught up in visualising and forget to just play golf – that is why I advocate people using visualisation as part of their pre shot routine. This should be done behind an imaginary line some 6 feet behind the ball. We call this line the decision line. Behind it, you go through your pre shot routine which includes visualising the shot you want and the swing it will take to produce that shot. Once you have completed a practice swing and are ready and confident, you step across the line at which stage, you use a clear key to allow your subconscious to produce the shot you want.

I thought that was the meaning you intended. I found out awhile back that if I didn’t spell those things out, what people often heard was a bit different from what I intended to say, which is why I try to keep especially the time frames for certain tasks in the game as clearly defined as possible. It is anything but an “any old time will do” propositions.

You are certainly on “target” with this one.

Cheers,
keygolf

Topic: Clear Keys

Hey one more thing that’s probably relevant is that Tiger meditates. Or so I heard anyhow.

I can see how it would be somthing you’d want to do with golf.

We did a bit of it in school once…..............

I’m no Yogi Master but it seems to make for very low tension, anxiety, and agitation. If you go with it and really get your Yogi on (my term) it gives you a pretty cool feeling.

Every muscle goes completely free of tension….”clear(er?)” mind per-se (conscious anyhow)....and you just feel really relaxed and heavy….but not in a bad way. (just super relaxed and agitation-free)

Sounds good to me.

Topic: Clear Keys

Hi Carey,

I just got my profile back from your website – thank you.

Am I to understand that the best way to interpret the results is to keep it handy whilst reading the Double Connexion?

The short answer is “Yes,” though it is also important to allow the left side “picture” to become a solid part of the way you think about yourself, and not just something you consider occasionally.

(Sorry to go off topic everyone!)

I’ll be looking forward to your new book as well.

One observation I have made ties in with your own. Woman and juniors are more receptive to ideas about the ‘mental game’. I also find that some continentals, especially the scandanavians buy into the process a lot more than UK based people who view it with suspicion and consider it mumbo-jumbo!

That matches what I have seen all three way (women, children and Scandanavians, as well as the Easterners).

One last point on Tiger:

Tiger is very open about the fact that Jack Nicklaus is his idol – he grew up trying to replicate what Jack did. Don’t you think he may have taken notice of the section in “Golf My Way” where Jack stated that 90% of the game is mental and that he never hit a shot without first seeing a ‘private movie’ of the shot and how it would finish. Guys, visualisation is one of the first tools of mental success.

I can only wish for a chat with Tiger, so I don’t know which parts, or how much he got or gets from others (beyond his parents), but it is clear he got quite a bit. It is my perception that he did not just gulp everything – or anything – down, but was rather very selective and evaluative in the way he approached everything that was offered to him. He is, in my book, a very, very special person.

I hear what you are saying about visualization, though I think that issue often gets stretched beyond its true purpose and value. The stretching comes from players thinking they should be doing that while executing. That turns out to be loaded with opportunity for messy shots, since it is a future orientation. The effective time frame for visualization should be completed in the pre-shot planning stage.

The other contingency I see often is players thinking that visualization is more powerful than it is – that somehow if you just “zero in” on a tiny target, the ball should go there. That might help if the visualization is contained as I suggest, but it will create vulnerability if not.

Lastly, visualization is experienced differently by each of the four styles. Analyzers are the only ones with a narrow, pointed focus.

Topic: Clear Keys

I’ll take one of them thar books!!!

Topic: Clear Keys

Hi Guys. Greetings to all. This is a really good thread, and I almost hate to butt in. Among other things, you are confirming for me the key reasons I’m now working on another book (that hopefully will be ready in the Spring) to gain some clarity in the most important issues that I feel didn’t get enough explanation and integration in the Double Connexion.

The things that will be expanded include, but not be limited to, skills and their relationship to habits and how both are developed for the adult population; when and how to play using clear keys (when is “readiness” complete); how conscious and non conscious mental activity differ and relate to each other; what comprises the automatic principle and the process that follows it; what we can learn from scoring patterns; how energy really works and what part it plays in our games; why so many golfers walk around in their macho boots as if they did not need any more understanding beyond how to swing a club; why Oriental (Eastern influenced) players are having success at a rate far more impressive than Westerners; what the “shakes” are in golf and how to manage them, and what that has to do with Tiger.

There will be more, but that’s a start. Fortunately, I have had 2 years of very important feedback from some LPGA players who have worked with most of these issues and found exceptional success, so there is even more to support the findings.

Why LPGA? For one things they are not afraid to share and don’t mind testing and experimenting with what makes sense to them. And because PGA players, as a group, tend to have the macho syndrome and typically don’t wish to admit to much of anything – and because if they are in good shape, with or without our process, they don’t want to give it away, or because even though they may struggle on occasion, they continue to think they just don’t need any help.

I thank all of you for offering your thoughts and for what you continue to do to help move any new understanding forward.

Best,
Carey
KeyGolf

Topic: Clear Keys

Be back later.

Back…!

K….......one last thing that I want to say for now…..

......is an obvious observation but I will write it down anyway.

That being:

To me, it’s tough to tell how much of his “mental game” is him consciously doing standout “things” over and above his talent carrying him through the situations he faces.

I don’t see much evidence to be honest. And I do realize that doesn’t necessarily mean anything BTW….but it does make it more or less impossible to know.

I do know though that a good amount of these guys are pretty clueless on technique and “mental game”- even if they think they know what they’re doing. Of course I’m sure that does not mean all of them. But I have a feeling it’s the majority.

If I have to guess though I’d say a guy like that (hell-bent on improvement) must at least be into everything. (the head game included) It would be interesting for sure to know exactly WHAT kind of stuff he IS into though.

I guess we will never know unless he tells us.

I continue to figure out my own way. (with the aid of guys like Carey of course)

Good topic. This stuff doesn’t get enough attention I don’t think.

-Paul

Topic: Clear Keys

Carey (keygolf) has made lots of observations on Tiger dotted around the forum. Worth the read.

Topic: Clear Keys

I agree that Tiger has mental game tools, however I think that he has a hell of a lot more going on and works a hell of a lot more on them than you think.

Let me know your thoughts.

Actually that IS very possible. It’s tough to tell though because he doesn’t usually ever go beyond the normal stuff (stay positive, stay in the present, etc. etc. etc.) when he’s describing his game.

However, most people don’t seem to like to openly talk about the crazy stuff (so-called anyhow) that goes on inside their noggin either. And/or a player could just want to keep a competitive edge they feel they have. (and maybe have worked very hard for)

I guess it’s true….....in the end, who knows what’s going on inside someone’s head, right?

I think the same thing (especially) with a guy like Hogan.

...

To me, you gotta watch out for anyone who thinks outside the box (and has common sense), wants a competitive edge, and is weirdly persistent.

Be back later.

-Paul

Topic: Clear Keys

Styles ‘staying in the present’ is something that many sports mental people seem to have no idea of. Staying positive is fine but it is still mental chatter that same way being negative is.

Staying in the present is waaaayyyy ahead in terms of mental training than it sounds.

As for Tiger, the upbringing, training and a great handle on his mental state is what makes him stand out from the crowd. He is at peace with the personal make up – and yes that does mean he can spit it sometimes and it does not affect his next shot. He has worked out how to let off steam and shut the mental chatter of when standing over a ball. That was all done before he starts his swing.

Topic: Clear Keys

Hey Styles. Welcome to the forum.

On the topic (which I find very interesting) I will say that:

I agree that Tiger no doubt knows some good stuff (i.e. transferrable information regarding “the mental game”) and he certainly has a “good attitude”, a desire for constant improvement, a competitive spirit, etc. etc. etc…...and (thus) has a great control over his game. (obviously)

But to be honest I am skeptical of if what he does know goes beyond the typical “stay positive”, “be patient”, “have a good attitude”, “grind”...............etc.

One could say that even if that’s all he does go by then that should be good enough for all of us because he’s the best player out there. I’m not so sure though. Like I said he is pretty talented.

But then again….........you mentioned his upbringing…....and his dad very well could have taught him some interesting stuff (beyond the simple concept of “grinding”, etc.) with the Green Beret background and his zest for training his son, etc. It’s tough to know though…

Regardless, like I said this guy is obviously doing some things right….and one would be dumb to not pay attention to what it is that he IS doing.

If you do have any information to contribute I would be interested.

-Paul

Topic: Croker Golf System

Styles,

The first answer is no. Hogan advises to start down with the left hip. Peter says clubhead first which will cause the hip reaction. Of all the ideas you could use, Peters’ will work best if you have to ask. If you play on 3 the start down is not your problem.

Wear and tear is caused by friction of which there must be some because the swing changes direction twice. Once on the back swing from backwards to forwards the at the finish from forwards to a stop. Place your thumb so it moves less.

Old timers had less trouble here because they had leather grips that quickly became slippery which allowed more freedom between hand and club. Some think this is wrong but think for yourself. Some are usually new at the game and use the academic style of quoting what someone else said but who the hell were they and where did they learn.

I have seen old golfers spit on their hands for iron shot but not for the driver.

Topic: Croker Golf System

Tai: Have a great Xmas season over there! I just took my own Juniors to watch the Lexus Cup girls play over the back fence. The did get a giggle at one of the lasses who had a teary meltdown after missing some putts. “Wow she should have made the first one and it would have saved her glove” which got ripped off and thoroughly slapped about. The youngest was heard saying “Mary had a little lamb: under his breath as she walked past trying to Clear Key by osmosis. Kids will have fun as long as parents do not expect too much – and that goes for any sport.

Topic: Croker Golf System

Guru…...I have not been around much on the forums lately due to being busy of which is a good thing in a way. Flights, cruise ships, hotels and the like. It is that time of the year!
Junior Golfers?
PC has asked me to attend some clinic on the 14th of Dec 2007 back in Australia? That is impossible as I will be in the Caribbean on a ship sailing towards some country to play golf? Not sure if PC knows where I am with golf some 16 hours away mind you by air time?
As for teaching kids under 4 feet? Give them a club cut down/ladies flex and let them discover what hitting a golf ball is like. Let them smash a ball in the backyard of all things or caddy for their Dad. I broke a few windows in the house in my early days with a shot or 2 and walls as well. I had a kid the other week on the ship who was a golf nut and his parents were like, “he will be the next Tiger” and I could see the pressure placed on the kid. Kind of sad in a way but that is life. The kid just hung around me for the entire cruise? I gave him a few dozen balls, let him play for free on the golf simulator, played golf with him in Bermuda/Cayman Islands and Mexico…. I was more than happy to help the young fella
In conclusion…...
Too many parents want the best for their kid in golf circles and it backfires more times than not. Let the kid smash it and duff it and if they want it, they will take it up seriously.
Cheers…........

Topic: Clear Keys

Welcome Styles. You are not the only one from the Emerald Isle to post in here:)

Topic: Croker Golf System

Guru, I do agree with you about many teachers who may confuse junior golfers at times. How does one teach a kid with an attention span of a few minutes? That can be tough but you have to let them have a bash and things and they may possibly find their feet or a passion for the game? (we hope!) There is no greater enjoyment in this great game than winning a tournament but seeing a young golfer whom one has taught make something out of the game also brings as much enjoyment at times whether they are a pro or some kid trying to achieve the dream. We are all learning mate mate no matter what we know, great game…

If it is your dream, make it happen….

I missed this one of yours Tai over the last few days of rushing around like a blue arsed fly.

I enjoy teaching junior juniors in short stints. It is a bit like giving them a giant piece of chewing gum. They can blow big or small bubbles and have a great time. They know when the ball is belted and when its duffed. How the do it is so different from watching adults learn. Watching some of them maturing into a golfer who can control it better than some of the adults around them is lots of fun too.