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Doak's Confidential Guide (to Aussie courses)


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#31 the_unreal_jeffrey

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 06:17 AM

QUOTE: ted.arlt.02 @ Feb 4 2005, 06:58 PM

Thanks Jeffrey,

Henry pointed out something to that effect.  Even assuming the changes didn't take place - is Commonwealth worthy of an '8'? 

Maybe if Doak had it to do all over again he might revise some of the copy describing each rating.  Maybe not.

Ted,

I understand what Tom was thinking when he said that Commonwealth was startegically pure. So many holes have such great simple strategy (2, 9, 14, 16, and 17 being the best examples). There are more interesting holes on that course than any other course on the sandbelt except RM.

Tell me what you'd be missing if you skipped 1 West?
Only the best collection of slalom mounds on the sandbelt!


#32 ted.arlt.02

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 04:06 AM

Jeffrey

My intent wasn't to devalue Commonwealth...I just think that CGC might have benefitted from Doak's superlatives. Tom obviously likes the place but I have no connection to the club so I couldn't possibly read Doak's definition of an 8 and say...yep...Commonwealth or anything else on the sand belt (ex RMC or KH). The operative phrase being 'worth a special trip to see'.


Slalom mounds laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif No strategic relevance !!! tongue.gif

All things considered, TD is the man. I don't agree with all that he writes or speaks but if I had the land, the cash and the ego...he'd be doing my course.

Does anybody have an opinion on where Barnbougle Dunes should fall on the Doak Scale?



#33 Uncle_Leo

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 04:58 AM

Teddy,

Commonwealth of 15 years ago and today are very different courses. I'd be interested to see what Doak's opinion would be on the course now, especially after some controversial work by Cashmore in the last few years. I doubt its an 8 anymore which is a shame.

Barny Dunes is at least an 8 in my book.



#34 henry

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 05:51 AM

I'd give Barny a 9.



#35 ted.arlt.02

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 08:53 AM

IMO BBD is worth a Doak 9. Although I'm not impressed by the first two holes, I can't say there are any weaknesses or poor holes.

Jack
Thanks for the heads up on CGC. I'm not in the loop on the finer points of 'golf design gone bad' on the Sandbelt. Sounds like it was once some good 'Trashy Talk' amongst the purests.



#36 MatthewM

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:56 AM

Barnbougle Dunes is a definite nine on the Doak scale.

MM



#37 BillReynolds

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 06:15 AM

Here is an extract from this months(March 05) Golf Austarlia. Brendan James interviews Doak.When asked if plans to update his guide Doak replies

"I have stopped writing it and updating it because the intention of the book was never to set myself, as an architect, apart from other people.It was a book of course reviews...it's a travel book.But now it is perceived as a critical golf architecture book and I don't want it to be looked at that way."



#38 Alex the Great

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 09:47 AM

Briefly,
Lakes- average course, front nine absolutely mind numbingly boring
Royal Sydney- under-rated
NSW- great course, some terrible injustice's meted out to it by Newton Grant Spencer and Thomson over the years. 2nd green a prime example
Australian- pedestrian, agree with Doak



#39 John J Jones

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 09:57 AM

Alex,

You wouldn't be a member at RS would you?

JJ



#40 Alex the Great

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 06:58 PM

No, but I've played a lot of golf there over the years.

One other thing. Huntingdale. Butchered. Some of the worst green redesigns in history, laughable, self indulgent crap.

Cheers



#41 Moe

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:28 PM

i've only played the front nine at Commonwealth and I wouldn't give it an 8 based on that. The first is a terrible hole, with little or no strategy, especially with the tee block where it is. 3rd is a shocking hole (at least I think its the third). There are just sooooo many trees everywhere.

As far as Royal Melbourne West goes. I found 1 to be a bit indifferent, although I do like the green. Very soft opening hole though. I made a 4 on the 2nd thinking it was a par only to later discover it was a Par 5 that I reached with a Driver and an 8-iron from the white markers which were 20m in front of the blues max. Another easy hole. The next 12 holes were the best collection of golf holes I've had the pleasure of playing in a long time, especially the dogleg right with the brutal green - can't recall which hole it was. However, the holes on the other side of the road were a bit ordinary - the two par 3's were good but the par 4's were mediocre at best. Having said that, i played Metro 2 days later and it was like playing golf in the botanical gardens. Great condition, but boring holes with little strategy, little reward for bold play and left me feeling a bit empty.



#42 henry

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:45 PM

Thommo, next time you're in Melbourne, you'll have to come back and play all eighteen.

I agree that 1 is fairly ordinary, although the tee from which you played it is easily the worst (front right, almost in the trees). Its not so bad a hole from the back.

I assume you're referring to 4 - there is a world-class hole there beneath the trees. Some serious work with a chainsaw (which is happening at the moment on other parts of the course) will turn it into a gem.



#43 jimmyboy

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE: Alex the Great @ Jun 1 2005, 08:58 AM

No, but I've played a lot of golf there over the years.

One other thing. Huntingdale. Butchered. Some of the worst green redesigns in history, laughable, self indulgent crap.

Cheers

Well Alex

I don't think "the great" sums up your name. When was the last time you visited Huntindale. was it on day release.



#44 John J Jones

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 08:21 PM

Henry,

I agree that 1 is fairly ordinary, although the tee from which you played it is easily the worst (front right, almost in the trees). Its not so bad a hole from the back.

This comment ranks right up there with the Moonah Links review from the car park. The 1st is a total disgrace, an embarassment to CGC and one of the worst holes on the Sandbelt. It has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING in common with any of the "untouched" CGC holes. The green sets up to the outside of the dogleg. The green is NOTHING LIKE any of the other greens. Both the inside and the outside of the dogleg are bunkered. There is zero risk reward. For most low markers it's a 7 iron and wedge. In the Port Phillip Cup a few years ago they hit 9 iron, 9 iron from memory.

Compared to the old 1st (which was a terrific hole) the new hole is a joke. To sit back and claim it's "not so bad" is a total cop out. If this had been done to another course you'd be foaming at the mouth and demanding the re-introduction of capital punishment for the committee. Rather than frigging with a bunker here or there or putting nice name plates on trees CGC should get off it's collective backside and fix the disaster that is the 1st.

Henry have you sold out, lost your edge or just been ground down into conformity?

JJ




#45 Jerry Springer

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 08:29 PM

JJJ, did you skip your coffee this morning? smile.gif You seem a trifle agitated..






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