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2019 - All Here


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#61 languid

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 02:58 PM

4.3 Use of Equipment a Allowed and Prohibited Uses of Equipment

You may use equipment to help your play during a round, except that you must not create a potential advantage by:

 

Using equipment (including a club or a ball) in an abnormal way in making your stroke. "Abnormal way" means a way that is fundamentally different than its intended use and is not normally recognized as part of playing the game

 

 

Can you make a stroke at a golf ball 'left handed' using a right handed golf club, hitting the ball ball with the back of the club? It is "abnormal" and fundamentally different from the club's intended use.

 

The answer is yes. You are using the clubhead and that is what matters. Most players who have been around for a while know they have to use "the other hand" to get out of some situations.More often the face of the club is contacting the ball as the club is held toe down with the normal striking face nearest the ball. 

It pays to practice the method a bit. I find a 7 iron works best for me. It is interesting when you are not ambidextrous.. I have had airswings!



#62 languid

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 03:04 PM

Forrest

I doo support the view that the best way to learn the Rules is to have a go at the Rule Book and other resources. 

Regarding your question on Relief Area I have put something together" off the top". There is no guarantee that it is 100%. 

Current Rules have 3 common variations.

Free Relief.

Method: Find the Nearest Point of Relief (NPR), Drop the ball within one club length of the NPR. The maximum area for dropping would be a semicircle of 2 club-lengths diameter*.  This procedure is encountered most commonly when taking relief from an Abnormal Ground Condition and Immovable Obstructions, in my experience. There are other free relief situations.   I am excluding Bunkers and Putting Greens, Dropping Zones from this discussion.

*The actual available area is often less that the maximum. The common reason the NPR is smaller is the proximity of the NPR to an area in which the ball may not be dropped. Think Water Hazards, Out of Bounds, Bunkers, and Putting Greens when the NPR is Through the Green (General Area).

Read Rule 20-2 on Dropping and Redropping.

Penalty Relief

 1) If dropping other than Back-on-The Line or Stroke and Distance the measured area will be found using 2 club lengths radius. The maximum area will be a semicircle of 4 club-lengths diameter.

The actual available area for dropping might be a lot less. For example think of situations that arise taking lateral relief from a Lateral Water Hazard.

2) If taking Back-on-The Line relief from a Water Hazard or an Unplayable Lie the ball is dropped at a spot selected on the visualised line. It is not dropped in a measured area. The ball will probably bounce and roll. Read 20-2c for redropping requirements.

 

In 2019 The 2 club-length radius will work pretty much as now for some Penalty Relief. However there is a restriction on the Club used for measuring, the drop is from knee height and the ball must be played from within the relief area.

Back-on-the-Line Relief is quite different. The Point is selected by the player on the Line and must be dropped and played from within a 1 Club Length radius. Area up to a maximum of a semicircle.

There are excellent diagrams throughout Rules 14, 15 and 16 in the Player’s Edition (hard copy and on-line).



#63 divot_maker

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 07:51 PM

The current rules mention you can you use the back of a clubhead, I can't find it in the 2019 rules

 

The answer is yes. You are using the clubhead and that is what matters. Most players who have been around for a while know they have to use "the other hand" to get out of some situations.More often the face of the club is contacting the ball as the club is held toe down with the normal striking face nearest the ball.
It pays to practice the method a bit. I find a 7 iron works best for me. It is interesting when you are not ambidextrous.. I have had airswings!


Edited by divot_maker, 20 October 2018 - 08:03 PM.


#64 languid

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 08:44 PM

The current rules mention you can you use the back of a clubhead, I can't find it in the 2019 rules


See Interpretation 10.1a/2

#65 divot_maker

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 09:07 PM

See Interpretation 10.1a/2

I'm struggling to the interpretations on the randa 2019 app



#66 AAA

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 09:52 PM

10 .1a/2 – Player May Use Any Part of Clubhead to Fairly Strike Ball
In fairly striking a ball, any part of the clubhead may be used, including the toe, heel and back of the clubhead.


#67 iRON MiCK

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Posted Yesterday, 07:18 AM


10 .1a/2 – Player May Use Any Part of Clubhead to Fairly Strike Ball
In fairly striking a ball, any part of the clubhead may be used, including the toe, heel and back of the clubhead.

Thats a reluef. A shank is penalty enough with out having to replay it and add 2 strokes.
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#68 languid

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Posted Yesterday, 09:53 AM

I'm struggling to the interpretations on the randa 2019 app

 

There is one aspect of using the site that cam be a slight stumbling block. I refer to hovering the cursor over Rules before trying to click on Rules Modenisation. Then you have to get to the website see 5) in the process below.

 

This is from an earlier post.

 

 Go to www.randa.org
 
At top of page see from left "The Rand A" then  "The Rules"
 
2) Hover the cursor over The Rules
 
This will show Rules Modernisation at the top of the second Column (then move the cursor down and then to the left)
 
3) Click on Rules Modernisation
 
4) Track down a short distance to "Search and Browse Rules of Golf on the Website"
 
5) Click on Website
 
This displays from the left 
 
Rules of Golf  Player's Edition  Definitions  Interpretations  and a few more headings
 
Unless you use the website often consider copying these instructions.


#69 OldBogey

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Posted Yesterday, 04:02 PM

 
Unless you use the website often consider copying these instructions.


If that's necessary, it must be a poorly designed user interface.

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#70 languid

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Posted Yesterday, 04:41 PM

The fact that Divot Man and I had a bit to overcome means little. It is just a bit different to others I have encountered.
Overall it is a quite terrific site in my experience.

#71 Forrest Gardener

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Posted Yesterday, 09:58 PM

 

...

 

I have put something together" off the top". There is no guarantee that it is 100%. 

...

 

Much obliged. You are right about the diagrams being helpful.

 

More generally, it seems strange to me to leave some rules out of the players edition. I wonder how they chose what to put in and what to leave out and how many will end up carrying the full rules book.



#72 ColinCL

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Posted Today, 04:14 AM

Much obliged. You are right about the diagrams being helpful.

 

More generally, it seems strange to me to leave some rules out of the players edition. I wonder how they chose what to put in and what to leave out and how many will end up carrying the full rules book.

It's been taking me all my time to get on top of the changes sufficiently to give talks to members this week and so I haven't yet compared the Player's Edition with the full set.  Which is no doubt why one of my fellow  members asked me today what the differences were!  I suspect that will not be the last time I find myself saying, "I don't know but I'll tell you when I eventually find out".


Edited by ColinCL, Today, 04:15 AM.


#73 languid

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Posted Today, 06:38 AM

What is left out is detail. The Rules are all there. The Definitions are sometimes complete but many are shortened. Reduced detail and shortened Defs would be for economy of words and keeping the PE size to a minimum.
I guess there would have been much debate along the way. It is a matter of opinion. One shortening I don’t like is in Lost Def. in the PE.
The search suspension for playing a Wrong Ball is left out. With a reduction in Search time this takes on even more importance.
I wonder how many people know this detail. It Is practically very good to know.
I am on a train doing this so must stop here.
Perhaps Colin or someone else will supply the detail on what is missing.
Cheers.

#74 Forrest Gardener

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Posted Today, 08:24 AM

...

 

The Rules are all there.

 

...

 

 

That's stretching it a bit. There are quite a few places where the rule is not there but only a placeholder giving a hint at what might have been left out.

 

In my view a player should be entitled to proceed using only the rules which are actually printed in the book. That might be the players edition or the full rules depending on the competition. That leaves the question of what to do when the rule isn't printed in the book. In my view a player should be entitled to do what seems reasonable and to then ask the committee for a ruling. If the player has not obtained a "significant advantage" then the score should stand. It would otherwise up to the committee to decide what score should apply. Now THAT would be a simplified set of rules but somehow I don't think committees would like it.

 

I note that players used to be able to proceed under equity but that is now gone.


Edited by Forrest Gardener, Today, 08:29 AM.


#75 rogolf

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Posted Today, 09:55 AM

In stroke play, there is always the opportunity to play two balls and seek a ruling later.

There is no doubt that the new Rules put a much greater responsibility on the Committee in charge and I'm certain that is by design.  It's still the player's responsibility (and the Committee's) to know the Rules.






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