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Swing Mechanics Without Athletic Ability


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#31 Zenstb

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:29 PM

Enjoying reading this thread and there is mention of having a one plane swing. Many would agree that the best representation of the one plane swing would Bryson DeChambeau.

Below is a 3D of a tour player who is considered the best representation of the one plane swing. If we put two and two together we know who's golfswing this is, which I'm not allowed to name.

Watch the video below and demonstrates this player is still two plane swing. This makes me ask the question is there truly a one plane swing and can we truly ever accomplish a one plane swing? 


Coordination is the key to movement

#32 Zenstb

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:33 PM

Brilliant, Zen! Many thanks. I will definitely work on that.

The new idea I got from this is using the hands to shallow the club rather than trying to alter the basic path. And since I know I have OTT DNA, working "with the grain" of that makes perfect sense to me rather than fighting it.

 

Devon I'll do a quick video shortly how the tour players accomplish shallowing. Its how your move the wrists at the beginning of the downswing and transition 


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#33 Zenstb

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:04 PM

Brilliant, Zen! Many thanks. I will definitely work on that.

The new idea I got from this is using the hands to shallow the club rather than trying to alter the basic path. And since I know I have OTT DNA, working "with the grain" of that makes perfect sense to me rather than fighting it.

Devon,

Here is a video to help you grasp how good players or tour players truly shallow the club.  With this new 3D I use, we can measure the lead wrists and trail wrist in Flexion/extension,Ulnar and radial deviation, supination and pronation of the wrist. In addition we can measure the rotation of the club and track exactly what the club is truly doing.  With these measurement capabilities it's giving us all a better understand of what tour players are doing and compare this to average golfers.  

What is interesting every tour player does this movement with their hands to shallow the club. What is very interesting is OTT players none of them do this move as a result don't shallow the club


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#34 GPJ_Longdriver

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:26 PM

Is it the fact that the address position and the impact position are completely different, that stops a true one plane swing from occurring?

 

As an example, in the address position, the shoulders are supposed to be square to the target line, yet in impact they are generally in an open position.

 

To my way of thinking ...... if the clubhead gets back to the same point, but the body is in a completely different position, then the path must surely have changed somewhere along the way, for the clubhead to have gotten back to where it needed to be.

 

Just my thoughts ....  :) 


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#35 Devongolfer

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:35 PM

Zen,
amazing. Best thing I have seen. I watch the tv slo mos very closely and I totally agree they do this.

And, even better, I reckon there is no "unathletic" reason why I could not do this.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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#36 golfguy33

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:08 PM

The question of being unathletic vs athletic is interesting with regards to the golf swing.

I wonder if the lack of conscience movements you are looking for in transition could be related to some of the more, seemingly funky swings that we've seen over the decades ?

I think of swings like, Trevino, Couples, Eels and of course Jim. These guys seemed to have a more one piece, rounded swing that flowed and never really stopped or transitioned but always moved them into a great position during the downswing and into impact.

Jon...



#37 Devongolfer

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:23 PM

Zen,

sorry, I had not noticed your one plane video, which I have now had a look at, many thanks.

So, to engage with you on your question, which was "why pursue a one plane swing, if even the "best" exponent of it is not 100% one plane?"

A couple of things occur to me. Firstly, BD may not be 100% but he seems pretty close to me. I would not shoot down the one plane idea based on his deviations, I dare say all players are not perfect at doing what they claim to be doing.

For me, based on how I interpret things from Hardy's explanation of one and two plane, I don't think the planes are the primary thing. I believe that the primary difference between one and two plane is how you think of powering the shot, and the plane differences arise out of the power differences.

I think of pulling down a steep plane with an automatic uncocking release when I think of two plane. If I have your terminology right: high alpha, low beta, high gamma.

Alternatively, if you want the body rotation and the right arm powering the shot, you get low alpha, high beta, low gamma.

These are different ways to power and think about the swing, the plane differences arise naturally out of those choices.

Now, and I am guessing here, if where you are headed is something like "medium alpha, medium beta, a little bit of gamma", maybe you can't see much value in the distinction between one and two plane. I'm not going to argue with you on that.

I am equally happy with one and two plane, I mess up either one. I bet if you videod me, you would not be able to tell what I was trying to do.
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#38 GhettoGolfer

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 07:58 PM

You have seen first hand the reality of my dilemma. :(


I have footage somewhere....
Because some idiots complain that my sig is too large:
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#39 Commish

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:27 PM

I have footage somewhere....

 

You should put it online and make some money from it.  27,000,000 golfers around the world could do nothing but laugh and like that footage.   Including me.. :(


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#40 GhettoGolfer

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:44 PM

You should put it online and make some money from it.  27,000,000 golfers around the world could do nothing but laugh and like that footage.   Including me.. :(

 

I like you too much to do that to you! 


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#41 Commish

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 11:33 PM

I like you too much to do that to you! 

 

 

At my 40% of takings, you can hate me all the way to the bank... :D


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The key to success is to learn to do something right, then do it right every time. Oh I wish.....
Three time winner of the treasured WBT.
2012 ISG National Champs 2nd Round winner @ Robina Woods
2013 ISG National Champs 1st Round winner @ 'The Dunes'
2014 ISG National Champs - Top 10 finish - Played like a girl - MUNT GOLFER
2015 ISG National Champs - Deservedly crowned the National N.A.G.A.
2016 ISG National Champs 4BBB champion with Francie
2017 ISG National Champs - I was there and the only thing that saved me was more BEER.
Hole in One - Rosnay GC, 157 metre Par 3 - 27th February 2015

http://www.golflink....k_no=2030804409

#42 mrbluu

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:31 PM

 

Most golf pro's are snake oil salesman. They place a video of your golf swing next to a video of the best golf swing in the world and talk about all the wonderful changes you can make with a few lessons and each time you go back they talk up the progress you've made and 20 lessons later they are still talking about the progress you've made! 

 

A good pro won't talk about the best swing in the world, they will address the bias and limitations in your movement and work with what is there. If someone wanted to do more than just play a bit of golf and committed to genuine change they would achieve more through insoles and a dedicated gym program to change how the muscles were moving all the time, not just when there is a golf club in the hand.

 

 

I've been to a few golf pro's and I don't think they are trying to sell the snake oil. I think quite a few of them don't understand the cause and effect of actions. They try to focus on fixing a symptom/s and not the root cause of issues.

 

I would recommend going to see a TPI Trainer (http://www.mytpi.com/experts) and work with them in conjunction with your golf pro. 

 

Also golfers as an overall, they don't like learning new things or they don't persist with something if doesn't work first of second swing. They rather regurgitate something they heard on tv or one of their playing partners once said than actually learn how the swing the club properly. 


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#43 MaxxOn

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:36 PM

I've been to a few golf pro's and I don't think they are trying to sell the snake oil. I think quite a few of them don't understand the cause and effect of actions. They try to focus on fixing a symptom/s and not the root cause of issues.
 
I would recommend going to see a TPI Trainer (http://www.mytpi.com/experts) and work with them in conjunction with your golf pro. 
 
Also golfers as an overall, they don't like learning new things or they don't persist with something if doesn't work first of second swing. They rather regurgitate something they heard on tv or one of their playing partners once said than actually learn how the swing the club properly.


Lift your left heel and keep your head down?
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#44 mrbluu

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:42 PM

Lift your left heel and keep your head down?

 

You forgot be confident!!!  :D


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#45 Zenstb

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:35 PM

Zen,

sorry, I had not noticed your one plane video, which I have now had a look at, many thanks.

So, to engage with you on your question, which was "why pursue a one plane swing, if even the "best" exponent of it is not 100% one plane?"

A couple of things occur to me. Firstly, BD may not be 100% but he seems pretty close to me. I would not shoot down the one plane idea based on his deviations, I dare say all players are not perfect at doing what they claim to be doing.

For me, based on how I interpret things from Hardy's explanation of one and two plane, I don't think the planes are the primary thing. I believe that the primary difference between one and two plane is how you think of powering the shot, and the plane differences arise out of the power differences.

I think of pulling down a steep plane with an automatic uncocking release when I think of two plane. If I have your terminology right: high alpha, low beta, high gamma.

Alternatively, if you want the body rotation and the right arm powering the shot, you get low alpha, high beta, low gamma.

These are different ways to power and think about the swing, the plane differences arise naturally out of those choices.

Now, and I am guessing here, if where you are headed is something like "medium alpha, medium beta, a little bit of gamma", maybe you can't see much value in the distinction between one and two plane. I'm not going to argue with you on that.

I am equally happy with one and two plane, I mess up either one. I bet if you videod me, you would not be able to tell what I was trying to do.

Thanks Devon,

My thoughts and just a question really is why try and teach something that is yet to be achievable. There isn't one guy truly achieving the one plane. On 2d video it may appear someone is one plane although yet to see it on 3D.  I'm not saying one plane is wrong either, I'm openly sharing questions I have. 

 

With release patterns and different types,  with the 3D I'm starting to raise the question is there such thing. Tour players a commonality is they start straightening their right arm from the top.The start rotating the hands (refer back to Shallowing video ). I'll do a video in next few days on showing their right arm beginning to straighten.

 

I know your find the right arm straighten not working on wedges etc although maybe need to be a bit more passive. maybe applying to much force through the hand.

 

Enjoying the the conversation Devon , I'm just sharing thoughts here and now using this new 3D system is making me ask a ton more question from what I'm seeing going on in the golfswing in 3D. Maybe we were wrong with some ideas as we have never been able to measure the things we can now.


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