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Phil....2 Strokes Or Dq?


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#31 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 06:15 AM

What rule did he deliberately break?

Yes, it was a deliberate act.

Yes, there is a rule to cover the situation.

But, Phil did not break a rule. He was penalized on the basis of a rule. That's very different to breaking a rule.


14.5

"A player must not make a stroke at his ball while it is moving"
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#32 Mr Potato Head

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 08:08 AM

Well we are both very good looking and quite intelligent...

Just shows how many actually read and try to comprehend 'these' posts


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#33 BumpunRun

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 08:23 AM

Just shows how many actually read and try to comprehend 'these' posts

I think it was the similarities in our avatar that confused those who were confused.

I don't bother reading my posts, let along attempt to comprehend what others have written so umm, yeah it should have been dq because he used to wear a visor and then had that bulldog clip on his hat. 


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#34 Goldy

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 08:39 AM

14.5

"A player must not make a stroke at his ball while it is moving"


No rules on the range.

I’m struggling that anyone can try to justify what he did.
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#35 Mr Potato Head

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 08:42 AM

I think it was the similarities in our avatar that confused those who were confused.

I don't bother reading my posts, let along attempt to comprehend what others have written so umm, yeah it should have been dq because he used to wear a visor and then had that bulldog clip on his hat. 

My intended definition of 'these' was quite specific, just to say.. ;)

 

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Country golfer on a City course.

 

I'm good, but no-one seems to care.

 

Now I find out a French au-pair is NOT a breed of goat!

French Doctors though? not on Nauru!

 

Is it really your ABC?
 
 


#36 languid

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 09:05 AM

Rule 14-5 has a defined penalty. 2 penalty strokes. It seems that some would like to change the Rule to DQ.
Or modify the Rule to include “intent” and have 2 ps or DQ for deliberate action.
Mickelson clearly knew the Rule. That’s good. Many Professionals aren’t up to scratch with the Rules.
I think on this occasion his action was brought on by the lousy job done by USGA with hole placements in particular. Frustration with how unfair some holes were. What a pathetic statement about not anticipating the wind would be up in the afternoon.
The USGA has bombed before.
Their effort reflected badly on them.
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#37 Rogaman

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 09:28 AM

  • Rule 1-2 prohibits exerting an influence on the ball – ‘any action intended to influence movement of a ball in play’.
  • By any measure, and by his own admission, this is exactly what Mickelson did.
  • The penalty for exerting influence is two strokes, unless the breach is serious, in which case a penalty of disqualification may be applied.
  • A serious breach is deemed to have been committed if the action allows the player to obtain a significant advantage.
  • Decision 1-2/0.5 states that, as an example, a player who intentionally stops the ball from entering a water hazard has committed a serious breach and should be disqualified.
  • By his own admission, Mickelson stopped his ball rolling into a place from where he believed it was likely that he would take more shots than a two stroke penalty: he is therefore covered by the Decision.
  • Mickelson claims he knows the Rules and that this was simply a way of using the Rules to one’s advantage: this is crap on both counts.
  • His action was (mis)calculated, deliberate, cynical and confronting.

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#38 Weetbix

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 09:46 AM

And is equivalent to stopping a ball going in a hazard by any definition I think

Thanks Rogaman - so many here have simply stated “it’s a 2 shot penalty get over it” but as you’ve shown there is a case for a DQ
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#39 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 10:21 AM

The problem with 1-2 is the exception. 

1. An action expressly permitted or expressly prohibited by another Rule
 is subject to that other Rule
, not Rule 1-2.

The USGA specifically stated that Phil made a stroke at the moving ball, rather than deflecting or stopping the ball, so they had to proceed under 14-5 because of the exception in 1-2. 

They should have DQ'd him under 33-7, IMO. 
 

A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee
 considers such action warranted.

Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.

If a Committee
 considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.


Edited by Itchy4Scratch, 18 June 2018 - 10:22 AM.

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#40 OldBogey

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 11:37 AM

Great try OB but you can't hide your rules ignorance with the first post. Trying to do the backflip and coverup is just too OBvious in this case !

Made me laugh, just sayin and pointing it out :)

Jon...

I'm glad I got a laugh out of you Jon, it doesn't happen very often.

 

I should have said 'worse off' rather than 'penalty'.  Poor choice of words which causes some people to get their knickers in a knot.


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#41 OldBogey

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 11:57 AM

The problem with 1-2 is the exception. 

1. An action expressly permitted or expressly prohibited by another Rule
 is subject to that other Rule
, not Rule 1-2.

The USGA specifically stated that Phil made a stroke at the moving ball, rather than deflecting or stopping the ball, so they had to proceed under 14-5 because of the exception in 1-2. 

They should have DQ'd him under 33-7, IMO. 
 

A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee
 considers such action warranted.

Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.

If a Committee
 considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.

 

Another case of the rules being NQR.

 

He stopped the ball with his club and nearly sank the putt for a two stroke penalty. If he stopped it with his foot his is disqualified and no chance of the ball going into the hole.  The effect is much the same but the outcomes entirely different.

 

I doubt that Phil M could have cared less.  He had no chance of making the cut and just wanted to finish out the round.  The end result is the same.

 

I see etiquette rules as designed to cover non-playing actions, such as bad behaviour, fighting, swearing inappropriately, destruction of property or the environment, etc.  The committee need to have a means by which they can get rid an undesirable.


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#42 koiom K. Asterisk*

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 12:05 PM

 

 

I doubt that Phil M could have cared less.  He had no chance of making the cut and just wanted to finish out the round.  The end result is the same.

 

 

 

Geez the USGA really does give Phil free reign

Playing the 3rd round of a major when you clearly had no chance of making the cut is just taking things too far though

Why didn't someone ring in from home?

 

FMD


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#43 Goldy

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 12:13 PM

The attention to detail here is pretty special.

Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid, Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Winner B grade OOM Curlewis 2018

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel
C Grade LD Growling Frog 11/8/18, blah blah blah,,,,this is getting to be almost monotonous..... 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 1/9/18,...maybe these are now so commonplace I should just stop listing them....

 

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink


#44 BumpunRun

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 12:22 PM

oh dear


"But sometimes there are more important things in life than being pedantic about the rules of golf, or spelling and grammar on golf forums"

#45 BumpunRun

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 12:23 PM

the 18 people who got less money because of him may have cared more 


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