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#31 clarhamp

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:16 PM

Clarhamp
The game was stroke foursomes not matchplay... from reading 11.4 I tbink we proceeded correctly and I now know appropriate penalties

 

WRONG!!!

 

29-1/2

 

Competitor Plays from Outside Teeing Ground in Foursome Stroke Play; Partner Replays Stroke

Q.In foursome stroke play A plays in correct order but from outside the teeing ground. B, his partner, then plays from within the teeing ground, whereas A should have done so. What is the ruling?

A.The side is penalized two strokes for playing from outside the teeing ground (Rule 11-4) and two strokes for playing in incorrect order (Rule 29-3). A must now play another ball from within the teeing ground. Otherwise, the side is disqualified.

 


#32 clarhamp

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:50 PM

The confusion in this foursomes kerfuffle exists because, as Colin pointed out, the stroke does not count.  That is why the player and not his partner must replay the stroke.

 

The same rule  applies in a wrong ball situation.  Stroke does not count and player, not partner, must replay.  Of course in match a WB is LOH.

 

The penalty strokes pile up if partner plays!

 

 



#33 pegasus2357

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 08:03 AM

In match play, there is no penalty.  You have the option of accepting your opponent's shot or requiring him to replay.

 

2 stroke penalty in stroke play but  strokes made from outside the teeing ground do not count. 

 

Rule 11-4

 

 

 

WRONG!!!

 

29-1/2

 

Competitor Plays from Outside Teeing Ground in Foursome Stroke Play; Partner Replays Stroke

Q.In foursome stroke play A plays in correct order but from outside the teeing ground. B, his partner, then plays from within the teeing ground, whereas A should have done so. What is the ruling?

A.The side is penalized two strokes for playing from outside the teeing ground (Rule 11-4) and two strokes for playing in incorrect order (Rule 29-3). A must now play another ball from within the teeing ground. Otherwise, the side is disqualified.

 

 

 

Okay, now I am more educated I will advise those involved of the updated outcome....
We all learn here and input is appreciated
This is going to be fun when I explain :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thanks


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#34 OldBogey

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 10:56 AM

Can I just express an opinion here that I believe that the rules should be simplified?



#35 pom

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 03:13 PM

Can I just express an opinion here that I believe that the rules should be simplified?

You can if you must.  The rest of us will just ignore it. :P


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#36 OldBogey

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 08:06 PM

You can if you must.  The rest of us will just ignore it. :P

expected
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#37 ColinCL

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 12:53 AM

Can I just express an opinion here that I believe that the rules should be simplified?

I may have missed it, but have you expressed an opinion on how far the revised 2019 rules go towards the simplification you look for?



#38 OldBogey

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:31 AM

I may have missed it, but have you expressed an opinion on how far the revised 2019 rules go towards the simplification you look for?

 

I haven't studied the revisions in detail - I'm waiting for the books to come out.

 

But from what I've seen, nowhere near enough simplification.  All they've really done is tweak a few of the rules.



#39 languid

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 01:12 PM

I haven't studied the revisions in detail - I'm waiting for the books to come out.
 
But from what I've seen, nowhere near enough simplification.  All they've really done is tweak a few of the rules.


The Rule changes are considerable in content and language.
I think you should not go on about The Rules needing to be simpler until you study the New Rules thoroughly.
The essential principles are there, still. For example everybody in a Stroke Competition must play the same course. Playing outside the teeing ground is not acceptable as an example.
As now Match Play concepts are retained. So an opponent can decide whether your playing outside the teeing ground matters to him or his side in Foursomes. It matters zilch to anybody else on the Course.
I think anybody who is really interested in the Rules and of a critical nature should try to understand why any Rule is what it is.
Over time, reading and participating in Rules Forums has helped. Reading Decisions has often helped as some Decisions explained the thinking.
Having to referee practically helps understand reasons.
The Rules are not “perfect”. On that point there are a number of Rule changes on the way in 2019 that get rid of some clear anomalies.

#40 OldBogey

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:37 PM

Again, you've missed my viewpoint entirely, languid.

My view is that the rules should be a set of principles, not an A-Z of every possibility that players may, and do, encounter. While the initial few rules that were laid down were simple enough, decisions on individual occurrences were called for and they were then added to 'the big book' (Decisions...), and some to the Rules. The intention, of course, was so that everybody would follow the same path ad infinitum. Considering the enormous variety of terrain on which golf is played, that seemingly impossible task has largely been achieved. But, to what end? All that has done is make the game tedious to play, to the point where many players are not interested in the tedium and have little interest in the rules. How often have you heard someone say "I know the basic rules which cover how I play"? Surely such people, through ignorance, break many rules every time they play.

I'm all for abiding by the rules whatever they are and have gone to considerable effort to learn them. But I understand why so many others haven't done the same.

#41 ColinCL

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 04:28 PM


My view is that the rules should be a set of principles, not an A-Z of every possibility that players may, and do, encounter.

 

Is there any competitive sport where the rules are only a set of principles and do not legislate for the various things that players might do or encounter?

 

And by the way, you don't have to wait for "the book" to come out,  You can download the 2019 Rules here:

https://www.rules.golf

 

(Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the downloads.)



#42 AAA

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 05:24 PM

How often have you heard someone say "I know the basic rules which cover how I play"? Surely such people, through ignorance, break many rules every time they play.

 

So what happens when all four players in a group say they know the basic rules which cover how they individually play?

 

Do they all play by different Rules? Who takes the money? The one who knows all the rules or the one who knows none?


Edited by AAA, 03 June 2018 - 05:26 PM.


#43 OldBogey

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 05:36 PM

So what happens when all four players in a group say they know the basic rules which cover how they individually play?
 
Do they all play by different Rules? Who takes the money? The one who knows all the rules or the one who knows none?

Who knows?

#44 OldBogey

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 05:41 PM

Is there any competitive sport where the rules are only a set of principles and do not legislate for the various things that players might do or encounter?
 
And by the way, you don't have to wait for "the book" to come out,  You can download the 2019 Rules here:
https://www.rules.golf
 
(Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the downloads.)

Golf is very different to every other sport, starting with playing it in vast fields, not a specified and groomed court. And don't forget that players are mostly their own umpires.

#45 golfguy33

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 07:02 PM

Thanks Col, a good read and should be easier to play the game with alot more conformity and less grey for the average player to get confused with ?

Jon...






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