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Closely Mown Areas "rough Condition" Fairways


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#31 languid

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 02:23 PM

Doesn't that scenario exist even when the full local rule is specified though?
 
I had to ask the question earlier about this exact scenario as I was unsure whether or not that action (preferring from fairway to rough) contradicted the rule.

Monty, if you go back to post 12 in this thread I explained that the wording in the Specimen Local Rule simply says the lie to which the Ball is preferred may not be a hazard or a putting green. Essentially that leaves fairways and rough.

In the dispute scenario A can tell B “on the Board it refers to the Appendix I for detail. I know that allows me to prefer from fairway to rough. We can pull out the Rule Book now and find it in print. If you want to look in the book later, that would be good.”
If there is no reference to the Appendix Spec LR interpretation is left to the player who might well read the statement as limiting the placement area to the fairway. In fact that is the obvious interpretation.
The Committee will have a simple job dealing with arguments between A and B and generally assisting players understand what is meant.

#32 Monty85

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 03:26 PM

In the dispute scenario A can tell B “on the Board it refers to the Appendix I for detail. I know that allows me to prefer from fairway to rough.

 

Except that when i read the local rule in Appendix 1 I was still unsure if the interpretation of that rule would allow me to prefer the ball from the fairway to the rough.

 

That was the point I just made.Your scenario can occur whether "appendix 1" is mentioned on the board or not. Which is why I asked what do you actually achieve.

 

Anyway. I understand your point, i just disagree that the additional wording is necessary as i think it is obvious what local rule is being applied when a notice board mentions "fairways only". From my experience anyway I don't recall many courses referencing the rule on their boards - Pretty much all of them have said either "fairways only" or "closely mowed areas only" and i've never seen anyone confused about what that means.


Edited by Monty85, 30 April 2018 - 03:39 PM.

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#33 OldBogey

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 03:38 PM

At least half the club members wouldn't have a clue what "Appendix 1" was referring to. If you also mentioned "Rules of Golf" that wouldn't help because they've never read, or even browsed the book. If you printed out the LR they wouldn't read past the heading.

There would still be arguments about whether you drop or place in the rough.

All you can hope for is that players get the gist of it and no-one has gained any unfair advantage.
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#34 languid

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 04:52 PM

At least half the club members wouldn't have a clue what "Appendix 1" was referring to. If you also mentioned "Rules of Golf" that wouldn't help because they've never read, or even browsed the book. If you printed out the LR they wouldn't read past the heading.

There would still be arguments about whether you drop or place in the rough.

All you can hope for is that players get the gist of it and no-one has gained any unfair advantage.

We still need do our best by the people who do try to play according to the Rules. Committees can do many things to  improve things. For example, include links to short Rules Videos in newsletters or whatever mailing lists. 

Nurture those who have a go.  Don't let the ignorant cheats prosper.

  

Of course The Appendices of The Rule Book are strange territory for Club Members. 

However Captains at my Club have consistently referenced the appendix and sometimes added the page number to help with Preferred Lies. At the very least if there is a dispute the Committee is able to sort it with ease. 

 

 Although I don't raise Rules matters after a game, others do. They seek out a discussion over a drink or two..  

 A high percentage of our members make a reasonable fist of playing by the Rules and try to get it right.

 

There is nothing quite like disqualification or application of penalty strokes to  get people's attention.



#35 OldBogey

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 08:12 PM

We still need do our best by the people who do try to play according to the Rules.


I agree with that, but was referring to what actually happens.

#36 pom

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 04:50 PM

At least half the club members wouldn't have a clue what "Appendix 1" was referring to. If you also mentioned "Rules of Golf" that wouldn't help because they've never read, or even browsed the book. If you printed out the LR they wouldn't read past the heading.

There would still be arguments about whether you drop or place in the rough.

All you can hope for is that players get the gist of it and no-one has gained any unfair advantage.

As members of the Match Committee we are expected to make sure that competitions are run correctly & that there are , Hopefully, no problems. This includes enforcing the rules & being seen to enforce the rules.( I am not talking about driving round the course & picking up players after they have done the wrong thing. I much prefer to pull the player up before they actually breach a rule). This includes placing on the board any local rules needed for the day. If we expect the players to play by the rules then we need to ensure that anything posted is accurate and that any local rule or condition of play is unambiguous. It is so easy to find yourself in an argument if there are any mistakes in the items posted.I agree that most players would not know what appendix so and so  says & would not bother finding out but it should still be posted in full to avoid any arguments later. There are always players around that will argue the point if postings or rulings are not accurate.

 AS members of the Match Committee we soon learn that we need to protect ourselves from such individuals.

    Note: As I am traveling around the country I am obviously not on any Match Committee at the present time.


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#37 OldBogey

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 09:47 PM

While I agree that match committees need to uphold their obligations, you must be used to dealing with a pack of bastards.

I'd rather deal with a club of golfers.

#38 languid

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 11:27 AM

Even at a Club with lots of chilled players sometimes things can get very tricky and unpleasant. By doing things right the first time unpleasant and unnecessary dramas can be avoided.
Another point is Clubs have visitors playing in their competitions. Making a bad impression on visitors is bad for business.
I can’t imagine a Golf Club with 100% happiness.
Complaining is common, normal human behaviour.
Let them complain about the weather, the beer or something else...not the way Competitions are run.
Even you have complained occasionally.
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#39 pom

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 04:44 PM

While I agree that match committees need to uphold their obligations, you must be used to dealing with a pack of bastards.

I'd rather deal with a club of golfers.

You get very few players that complain. You only need 1!


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#40 AAA

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 05:09 PM

Even at a Club with lots of chilled players sometimes things can get very tricky and unpleasant. By doing things right the first time unpleasant and unnecessary dramas can be avoided.
Another point is Clubs have visitors playing in their competitions. Making a bad impression on visitors is bad for business.
I can’t imagine a Golf Club with 100% happiness.
Complaining is common, normal human behaviour.
Let them complain about the weather, the beer or something else...not the way Competitions are run.
Even you have complained occasionally.

When I was thinking about taking up golf after playing serious tennis for years, I was told that the difference between a tennis club and a golf club was that most of the members of a golf club only joined so they had plenty of things to complain about.


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#41 languid

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 08:53 PM

When I was thinking about taking up golf after playing serious tennis for years, I was told that the difference between a tennis club and a golf club was that most of the members of a golf club only joined so they had plenty of things to complain about.

Being on a Club Board is an eye opener.
The board and management can be doing lots of good things. Good things are taken for granted and plaudits are rare.
The Members Get fixed on things they don’t like and complain. The Board members are doing the job unpaid and because they care and want to make a difference. Human nature .....or have we developed whinging to a high level?
That said there are many who volunteer for all sorts of jobs, particularly in smaller Clubs doing it tough..




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