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One Punch Legislation Or The Coward Punch


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#1 pegasus2357

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 06:06 PM

I know this topic is very close to the hearts of some on here... ummmm there is a hashtag #metoo.... I don't want to detail it all but a brief summary...
Following my separation from the ex I lost of and contact with my stepson.... his choice ... anyways he ended up in Qld and was a victim of a coward punch... he survived but apparently suffers from associated issues from the brain damage he suffered when he hit the pavement.... yeah it hurts but there is sweet fark all I can do about it....
I digress though
James Stannard... captain of the Australian Sevens Rugby Team.... was last night a victim of a coward punch.... Victim ends up in hospital with a fractured skull.... perpetrator caught at scene by victims team mates is charged than granted bail....
Sorry if you king hit someone like that you loose your rights to bail...
Legal system needs to have a really good hard look at yourselves.... this isn't good enough...

Humble apologies for raking over some coals
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#2 Patrick Reed

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 06:58 PM

Sorry to hear of that Peg. Unfortunately the incident to James happened in the UK I’m led to believe.





I stand corrected, saw report on ABC NEWS

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 07:27 PM

Sorry to hear of that Peg. Unfortunately the incident to James happened in the UK I’m led to believe.





I stand corrected, saw report on ABC NEWS

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#4 pegasus2357

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 08:17 PM

Sorry to hear of that Peg. Unfortunately the incident to James happened in the UK I’m led to believe.





I stand corrected, saw report on ABC NEWS


All good Mr Greenkeeper somethings in life are out of ones control...
Legal system/Magistrate/Whomever the throwwr of the punch appeared before ... what the fark were you thinking to give this mongoose bail... I don't care that the victim in this case is a sportsman or Joe from down the road the same should... sorry must apply.... you throw a coward punch you end up spending sometime in da clink awaiting an opportunity to post bail
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#5 hack2489

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 06:56 AM

Understand your pov, and TBH, I agree.

But.

What about rapists, murderers and paedophiles? Surely they don't deserve bail either?

#6 hack2489

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 06:59 AM

To throw curve ball, a mate of mine was accused of King hitting a bloke. Cops arrested him, he got bail.

At his hearing the video evidence was played, showed it wasn't him.

Cops had the video before they arrest him.

Was 7 weeks between arrest to the hearing, so my mate would have been in lock up all that time if there was no bail. For a crime he didn't commit.

#7 OldBogey

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 09:28 AM

As much as I'd like to see all deadbeat thugs locked up, we do have a principle that one is innocent until proven guilty.

Perhaps we need a fast track system for the obviously guilty bastards so we can get them off the streets immediately.


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#8 Commish

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 02:22 PM

Understand your pov, and TBH, I agree.

But.

What about rapists, murderers and paedophiles ?  Surely they don't deserve bail either?

 

For murder the presumption is against bail which generally is only granted through a Supreme Court bail hearing.  With Rape and Paedophilic acts, if there is any form of aggravation in the crime, it also has a presumption against bail.  Agree with Peg as well.. where it can be proven that it was a 'Coward Punch" and totally unprovoked, bail refused.


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#9 hack2489

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 12:19 AM

For murder the presumption is against bail which generally is only granted through a Supreme Court bail hearing. With Rape and Paedophilic acts, if there is any form of aggravation in the crime, it also has a presumption against bail. Agree with Peg as well.. where it can be proven that it was a 'Coward Punch" and totally unprovoked, bail refused.


Totally understand the presumption against, but offenders of such crimes do still get bail.

Be great if a bail hearing could include proof of crime or defence of it. Might speed up the whole legal system. But, with precedent evidence rules and a well healed legal system, I doubt it will ever change.

#10 Commish

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 08:29 AM

Totally understand the presumption against, but offenders of such crimes do still get bail.

Be great if a bail hearing could include proof of crime or defence of it. Might speed up the whole legal system. But, with precedent evidence rules and a well healed legal system, I doubt it will ever change.

 

A little off topic, but yep, we are stuck with the system we have.

 

A prosecution case has to be outlined at any bail hearing, but the problem is the evidence that is available generally is only in the infancy stage unless there has been an admission.  Most magistrates will more often than not go with the way of the prosecution.  They don't get paid as much as Judges and will leave the decision of bail to them.  The better barristers out there know which judges are more lenient than others and how to present to them.  They simply wait and shop.

 

We inherited the Westminster system of justice.  Too bad we did not inherit there cautionary detail as well whereby if you do not raise an alibi or statement of defence to a crime at the time of caution, you cannot raise it at any time in the future.  Would stop a lot of alibi's being created post incident and close a few legal loopholes.


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#11 hack2489

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 08:54 AM

A little off topic, but yep, we are stuck with the system we have.

A prosecution case has to be outlined at any bail hearing, but the problem is the evidence that is available generally is only in the infancy stage unless there has been an admission. Most magistrates will more often than not go with the way of the prosecution. They don't get paid as much as Judges and will leave the decision of bail to them. The better barristers out there know which judges are more lenient than others and how to present to them. They simply wait and shop.

We inherited the Westminster system of justice. Too bad we did not inherit there cautionary detail as well whereby if you do not raise an alibi or statement of defence to a crime at the time of caution, you cannot raise it at any time in the future. Would stop a lot of alibi's being created post incident and close a few legal loopholes.


Yep.

Off topic, but anyways...

I agree.

Seeing as how we've gone off track anyway, I'd be keen to hear yours and anyone else's thoughts on the evidence rules for 'donestic violence' matters.

I've had a few mates now all receive AVOs in the earlier stages of their bitter marriage separations, and all of them were innocent. Seems the word of the female is taken as gospel, AVO put in place then the recipient has to defend it at a huge cost amid already emotional turmoil.

I had one mate who had recorded the whole incident, police took his Mrs word for it, issued AVO and in court the magistrate didn't want to see or hear the evidence. Luckily my mate had a good lawyer, and got it admitted into evidence, an AVO dropped.

In another, the wife made a statement which police used to charge a mate with assault. Trouble was, the dates and times of the alleged assualt coincided with my mate being at a casino, in view of plenty CCTVs. Police prosecutor pushed ahead with charges despite being made aware of the footage. Magistrate let the women change her statement on the stand to a few days earlier. Luckily again, this mate also had a good lawyer and suspect this might happen, so he had my mates phone travel GPS history timeline (android Google maps) available to prove again at the dates and times my mate was working on a job site 100km away.

I just don't understand how facts can't be checked before the AVO is issued. Or why a sworn statement is permitted once facts are rebutted with hard evidence.

Feels to me like the system is skewed. I know plenty of blokes do the wrong thing, but, I don't believe all victims are female either.

#12 Madam

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 09:34 AM

I’d start a new thread please
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#13 hack2489

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 09:47 AM

I’d start a new thread please


Where's the fun in that?

Hmmm.

Mods these days. Going all PC.

#14 OldBogey

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 10:27 AM

I’d start a new thread please

 

You may, not that you need my permission.



#15 OldBogey

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 10:37 AM

Hack, you seem to have a few rough mates, crims, wife beaters, etc.

 

While I certainly wouldn't want to be falsely accused of violence, I can understand the legal system offering a quick solution to the plight of women in fear of their partner.  Perhaps AVOs should have a 14 day limit during which time the 'victim' needs to prepare and present a case for an extended or ongoing Order.  Two weeks is long enough for the combatants to calm down to civilised communication.  Perhaps a mediated meeting at the local cop shop (or nearby larger one), then the mediator could give an opinion to the court as to whether there is substance to the claimed degree of conflict.






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