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Slope Ratings


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#16 Bluethunda

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:01 PM

Stupidly they were based subjective measures. So Royal Melbourne is a relatively easy course as it's not long. No consideration for the bunkering or the difficulty of the greens.
Totally inept process.



Bunkers are considered as are green speeds, width and depth, contouring of greens, blah,blah,blah.


Pine Rivers isn’t long and has a slope Rating around 129 from memory..
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#17 Toph

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:52 PM

Very few are in play for the scratch golfer plus the greens are flat.

If the greens are flat why do you three putt so often?
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#18 upnin

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 07:10 PM

Bunkers are considered as are green speeds, width and depth, contouring of greens, blah,blah,blah.


Pine Rivers isn’t long and has a slope Rating around 129 from memory..

 

Compared to The Flats which has a ridiculously low Slope of 126 - I would argue The Flats is bit harder than Piney, if 129 is accurate. 



#19 Bluethunda

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 07:54 PM

Compared to The Flats which has a ridiculously low Slope of 126 - I would argue The Flats is bit harder than Piney, if 129 is accurate.



Let’s argue then.


In dry conditions PR, ball can roll three fairways over. TF, in the dry still green and lush, no real bad run. TF, is just that...... flat. PR greens are small, TF, some small yet a few have severe undulations. Btw, I parred the green before the island green in a pro am, the title holder in our group didn’t. He had bogey.

You can miss a fairway at TF, and recover ok, Miss one at PR and you struggling.


Your turn
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#20 Weetbix

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 07:20 AM

Plus slope isn’t difficulty per se - it’s relative difficulty

I expect PR’s scratch rating is lower than TFs
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#21 hack2489

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 07:29 AM

Agree, our club captain went out with the 2 "assessors" and noted that they didn't actually play the course but simply took measurements, made notes of various aspects of the course. After about 4 or 5 holes the captain said "what about the wind?"
We rarely get a calm day because we're a links course on the coast in a very windy part of the country.
Their answer..."oh, the wind isn't a factor"
I would love to have these 2 blokes out here when you have to flush 3 drivers to get near some of the par 5's and then ask them about the wind not being a factor.


Wouldn't the DSR increase on those windy days? So, by design, the course rating and handicap system work together to factor in the wind (if for that matter, other weather elements) ???

#22 Bluethunda

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 11:30 AM

They take into account the prevailing winds. Don’t have to play the course to rate it
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#23 Bluethunda

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 11:30 AM

Plus slope isn’t difficulty per se - it’s relative difficulty
I expect PR’s scratch rating is lower than TFs


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#24 Snappy McSnapperton

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 11:56 AM

Golf Australia should re-do all the slope ratings using actual scores instead of an algorithm now.  It has been in place long enough that you could just use the scores from people playing different courses to determine a slope rating as there would be enough data by now to make it robust.

 

 

It would take statistician about 3.5 minutes. 


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#25 Birdie Blitz

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 12:26 PM

They take into account the prevailing winds. Don’t have to play the course to rate it

 

I know when they rated our course that they were asking all sorts of questions around prevailing winds, run offs, green speeds etc. I think the rating system was as robust as it could be, it is just the difference between theoretical and practical difficulty. 


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#26 Bluethunda

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:54 PM

I walked the course with the team, so much involved in the process
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#27 upnin

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 09:32 PM

Let’s argue then.


In dry conditions PR, ball can roll three fairways over. TF, in the dry still green and lush, no real bad run. TF, is just that...... flat. PR greens are small, TF, some small yet a few have severe undulations. Btw, I parred the green before the island green in a pro am, the title holder in our group didn’t. He had bogey.

You can miss a fairway at TF, and recover ok, Miss one at PR and you struggling.


Your turn

 

The difficulty of TF is certainly not off the tee on many holes, as the fairways are some of the widest in golf. Yet even on those holes, you had better hit it to the correct side of the fairway to allow any sort of shot to some pin placements.

 

The main test at TF is the combination of severely sloped non-receptive greens with genuinely fast putting surfaces (at least during the winter months), very challenging bunkers, and then extremely tight lies in the run-off areas surrounding the greens. Add to the mix a fan that seems to average 30kph, and usually stronger in the afternoons, and you've got a lot more difficulty than a tricky sidehill, short layout like Piney - or at least that's the way I see it.

 

That's not meant to be a knock on Piney, as I've only played it once about a million years ago, and at my advanced stage in life, can barely remember it.

 

And, I'm not in love with what Clayton has provided us at TF, but my opinion is not necessarily universally shared at the Club. My point is, I think that TF is Slope rated too low, and I am for once not at least in the minority in that opinion at TF. 


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#28 Bluethunda

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:17 PM

The difficulty of TF is certainly not off the tee on many holes, as the fairways are some of the widest in golf. Yet even on those holes, you had better hit it to the correct side of the fairway to allow any sort of shot to some pin placements.
 
The main test at TF is the combination of severely sloped non-receptive greens with genuinely fast putting surfaces (at least during the winter months), very challenging bunkers, and then extremely tight lies in the run-off areas surrounding the greens. Add to the mix a fan that seems to average 30kph, and usually stronger in the afternoons, and you've got a lot more difficulty than a tricky sidehill, short layout like Piney - or at least that's the way I see it.
 
That's not meant to be a knock on Piney, as I've only played it once about a million years ago, and at my advanced stage in life, can barely remember it.
 
And, I'm not in love with what Clayton has provided us at TF, but my opinion is not necessarily universally shared at the Club. My point is, I think that TF is Slope rated too low, and I am for once not at least in the minority in that opinion at TF.



Well that’s a fair rebuttal you have provided. Never saw TF prior to Clayton’s Works, so cant comment. Both tracks have their penalties and easy parts. So I guess it’s a draw :)
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