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Playing A Second (Or Third, Etc) Off The Tee


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#16 koiom K Frenzy

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:20 PM

The rules guys are gonna wish they could create a gated community
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#17 pom

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:21 PM

If anyone finds the ball you are obligated to identify it as yours or not as the case may be. If you do not wish to search for your first ball let that fact be known. Also once you have played another shot with the provisional ball from a place closer to the hole than the original is likely to be the original ball is lost. Strange as it may seem you cannot declare a ball as lost. However your actions ( playing a second ball, not provisional. Playing a stroke with the provisional from a spot closer to the hole than the original ball is likely to be, before the original is found. or 5 minutes has passed.Or if you hole out before the original is found). There is no penalty to fellow competitors who find the ball that you did not wish to look for. Not by the match committee anyway.


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#18 pom

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:27 PM

I found this under a rules section on Mr Google:

 

The definition of ‘Lost Ball’ lists the only circumstances under which a ball can be lost;

"A ball is deemed 'lost' if:
a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or
b. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or
c. The player has put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 27-1a); or
d. The player has put another ball into play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1); or
e. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.
Time spent in playing a wrong ball is not counted in the five-minute period allowed for search."

Of course, the correct thing to do if you definitely do not want to search for your original ball is to put another ball into play as quickly as possible, without declaring it as a provisional ball. Remember that on the teeing ground you have to wait until all the players in the group have played before you play your second ball from the tee.

 

Once you have made a stroke at another ball, under penalty of stroke and distance, it does not matter if your original ball is then found, as it is no longer the ball in play.

This seems to be what you did ie not declaring second a provisional.

  Just a side note to this comment. If you play a ball off the tee. Then play a provisional ball. fine. If you then decide that you do not wish to look for the original  ball & play another ball of the tee this would make both the original & the provisional ball lost.Played 5 off the tee.


Edited by pom, 10 March 2018 - 04:35 PM.

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#19 Snappy McSnapperton

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:34 PM

Ok...another scenario...and I'd still like the gurus to answer the original question...

You tee off. You play a provisional. You decide you want to use the provisional...essentially as you described...don't look for the first one. One of your playing partners finds the first one...despite you not looking..or not wanting it looked for. My assumption is that once found, the first ball has to be played. Correct?


Yes,

The five minute looking thing applies, that is until you hit your next shot.

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#20 pom

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:35 PM

I now remember why I don't usually come in here.

There is nothing terrible about making a wrong decision on this forum. If you are incorrect you will be corrected by someone & thus avoid making that same mistake on the course. I am typing these posts whilst sitting in a caravan without access to a rule book. So anything is possible.


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#21 MaxxOn

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:42 PM

There is nothing terrible about making a wrong decision on this forum. If you are incorrect you will be corrected by someone & thus avoid making that same mistake on the course. I am typing these posts whilst sitting in a caravan without access to a rule book. So anything is possible.


Your post about the ruling is also my understanding, so you're more than likely wrong.
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#22 pom

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:42 PM

So 27.1 applies to the first case...in other words, you can play as many as you like off the tee, clearly with penalty of a stroke and distance? This was my assumption.

 

In a 3rd scenario...an extension of scenario 2 - you play the original tee shot, then a provisional...want to abandon the original but it is found. I assume you could therefore go back to the tee and play another tee shot, which would be shot #3, and the ball in play...correct?

Yes. You could declare the original unplayable. & then one option is to go back to where you played the previous stroke.The provisional is already out of play.


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#23 MaxxOn

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:43 PM

Where's OldBoozer to help make this as clear as mud?
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#24 AAA

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 05:42 PM

Question...when teeing off, can you decide to play a second ball off the tee, declaring it to be the ball in play...therefore even if the first ball is found (or for that matter, in the middle of the fairway), it is the second ball that is in fact the ball in play.

By simply playing another ball of the tee (or from where the previous ball was played anywhere on the course), then that ball becomes the ball in play: unless you legitimately declared it to be a provisional or the original ball was holed.

 

Rule 27-1a

http://www.usga.org/...l#!rule-27,27-1


Edited by AAA, 10 March 2018 - 05:44 PM.

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#25 AAA

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 05:50 PM

The difference between my original question and the second scenario...my assumption is that you can play as many off the tee as you like, and declare them all in play...therefore, the last of those that you hit (in the original post, the second ball off the tee) is in fact the ball in play, regardless of the first ball.

 

In the second scenario, the first ball if found would be in play, as you played a provisional with your second, not a ball that you had declared to be in play.

 

Are these the correct interpretations?

Yes, except that you don't need to declare them in play as the last ball played is automatically in play unless declared to be a provisional.

For it to be a provisional it must be declared to be a provisional.

 

Incidentally, you don't need to deem/declare a ball unplayable in order to play another ball from the same place. But remember there is always a penalty stroke (and distance loss) for playing another ball.


Edited by AAA, 10 March 2018 - 05:55 PM.

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#26 Goldy

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 06:02 PM

By simply playing another ball of the tee (or from where the previous ball was played anywhere on the course), then that ball becomes the ball in play: unless you legitimately declared it to be a provisional or the original ball was holed.

Rule 27-1a
http://www.usga.org/...l#!rule-27,27-1


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#27 MaxxOn

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 06:18 PM

Thank you


I'm still waiting for you know who to chime in, even though it has been sorted.
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#28 Bluethunda

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 06:43 PM

Thank you


See post #2 first page



You’re welcome
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#29 *Mouldy

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 06:58 PM

I do find it quite humorous when someone chunks their ball into the middle of the lake on the par 3 3rd at Keysie. Even funnier when they declare the next shot off the tee as a provisional. I haven't seen any scuba gear on course.

NB the point of entry is nearly always a nasty lie so playing 3 off the tee is far preferable.

It seems that the correct practice is to say nothing and hit your 3rd. Rather than saying to my laughter that the first ball is lost.

The rules of golf are so dumb.
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Posted 10 March 2018 - 07:00 PM

Time to declare all areas off the fairways as lateral hazards and to allow the club to be grounded. Would speed up play immensely.
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