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Hio?


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#1 BarnEsy05

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:47 PM

Saw this pic on Stalkbook tonight.

 

What is the ruling...HIO or not?

 

Attached File  HIO.jpg   150.84KB   3 downloads

 

 


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#2 AAA

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:51 AM

A definitive ruling is awaited from the USGA or R&A



#3 rogolf

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:51 AM

The ball is not holed (see definition of "holed" in the Rule book) - it's not within the circumference of the hole and all of it is not below the level of lip of the hole.  The twig is a loose impediment and the player can remove it.  Since it's on the putting green, there would be no penalty if the ball moved when the loose impediment was removed, and the player must replace the ball.  Since the ball won't come to rest at that spot, he must find the nearest spot, not nearer the hole, where it will come to rest and place it there.  That would be on the lip of the hole.


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#4 AAA

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:43 AM

Some years ago I had a ruling from the R&A for a slightly different scenario.

I was the referee in that case. The ball was lying on a large leaf stuck in the hole. The ball was entirely within the margin of the hole.

The ruling was: 

 

Rule 23-1 permits the removal of a loose impediment and absolves the player from penalty if the ball moves as a direct result of such removal. In this particular case, and bearing in mind that the ball’s replacement is not possible, in equity (Rule 1-4) it should be ruled that the ball is “holed”.

 

I am awaiting a reply about this case but don't see why, in equity, it would be different


Edited by AAA, 22 February 2018 - 03:45 AM.

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#5 rogolf

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:58 AM

Some years ago I had a ruling from the R&A for a slightly different scenario.

I was the referee in that case. The ball was lying on a large leaf stuck in the hole. The ball was entirely within the margin of the hole.

The ruling was: 

 

Rule 23-1 permits the removal of a loose impediment and absolves the player from penalty if the ball moves as a direct result of such removal. In this particular case, and bearing in mind that the ball’s replacement is not possible, in equity (Rule 1-4) it should be ruled that the ball is “holed”.

 

I am awaiting a reply about this case but don't see why, in equity, it would be different

One difference is that the ball is not entirely within the circumference of the hole.  It is sitting on the lip of the hole and can be replaced there.


Edited by rogolf, 22 February 2018 - 03:59 AM.

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#6 AAA

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:09 AM

If the centre of gravity is inside the hole margin, it cannot be replaced there.

 

I think the site this post was copied from indicated the ball would fall in if the LI was not there.



#7 hack2489

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:10 AM

Who cares about the rules. How p.issed off would you feel if you snorted one only to walk up and find THAT... Sheesh, what an anti climax unfulfilled feeling picking that up,
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#8 rogolf

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 05:18 AM

If the centre of gravity is inside the hole margin, it cannot be replaced there.

 

I think the site this post was copied from indicated the ball would fall in if the LI was not there.

"centre of gravity" of the ball is irrelevant.  I can't find support for use of that term in the Rules or Decisions.

Rule 20-3d covers the situation when a ball won't come to rest on the spot it is placed.  The ball in the photograph is resting on the lip of the hole, albeit supported by the loose impediment.



#9 languid

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 10:53 AM

An Equity situation. When Equity decisions are made it is usually readily seen as commonsense and “fair”. I would expect “holed” avoiding an unusual punishment of the player.

#10 rogolf

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 11:05 AM

An Equity situation. When Equity decisions are made it is usually readily seen as commonsense and “fair”. I would expect “holed” avoiding an unusual punishment of the player.

"Equity" decisions in the Rules of golf mean treating similar situations the same.  Whether or not the player is "punished" isn't a consideration.



#11 Goldy

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 11:14 AM

just in...R&A to change name to S&M....


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#12 languid

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 01:30 PM

An Equity situation. When Equity decisions are made it is usually readily seen as commonsense and “fair”. I would expect “holed” avoiding an unusual punishment of the player.


However maybe hardline in this situation. Reading Decision 16/3 dealing with Ball embedded in side of the hole not all the Ball below the hole.
Essence the ball is not holed and player needs to make another stroke.
I understand there is plenty of hardline in The Decisions but I have seen hardline decisions reversed in the past.
The RULING BODIES are clearly trying to make the game easier to understand and reduce the “punishment “ attitude. For example clumsiness in accidentally moving your ball on the putting green. Forever been not tolerated, 1 penalty stroke and ball must be replaced. Now available in a Local Rule but certain to be established in the 2019 Rules as part of the Rules.

#13 Fatprick

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 01:35 PM

If you have a HIO with a hybrid does it count?

#14 VLAD

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 01:36 PM

If you have a HIO with a hybrid does it count?

Only in comp...or with mates

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#15 Fatprick

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 01:37 PM

Only in comp...or with mates


Well I'm farked, I rarely play comps and I don't have any mates.

Edited by Cats are Farked, 22 February 2018 - 01:38 PM.

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