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Club Champs - Grade Cuttoffs And Field Size...opinions Sought


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#1 Goldy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:49 PM

Good evening trendsetters.

 

I'm currently seeking opinions in regard to how club championship grades are set. Let me paint the picture.

 

I assume handicap cutoffs that are set for grades at most clubs roughly reflect the spilt between the playing group. At my club, A cuts off at 10, B at 18, C at 19+.

 

This isn’t arbitrary. It is done, one presumes, to even the grades out based on the mix of players that we typically get.

 

We are currently having discussion around this year's club champs...the entries would indicate that based on the above handicap limits, the split between grades will be something like A: 53%, B: 30%, C: 17%

 

I would suggest that re-aligning the handicap cutoffs for a one-off comp…albeit our most important one…should be considered for the exact same reason. Because it gives each competitor, not so much an equal chance, but at least a relatively equal number of competitors against whom they will compete. If we move the cutoffs to 7, 15 and 16+, each group becomes roughly even in number.

 

I think it is a product of the fact that the A grade players value the competition more highly than the others…and to be honest, I don’t blame them. To me, there is one club champion - the one that shoots the lowest 4 rounds off the stick. That winner will almost certainly come from the A grade ranks. It is clear that the higher the handicap range moves, the less interest the groups in those higher ranges have. Again…I totally understand that.

 

However, as a result of our defined grade ranges, we have a very uneven split in the grades. Probably to the detriment of A grade, where the winner will need to beat half the entire field, and to the advantage of the C grade winner, who will only need to beat a handful. The guys at the high end of A grade are probably unlikely to win the Gross score, but are still disadvantaged in trying to win the Net score purely on numbers. The C grade winner, by contrast, can potentially kick a few shins in the car park and walk to the title!

 

So we're having this discussion at the moment...consider that ANYONE can win the gross...if a (dirty cheating) C grader shoots 70 off the stick for 4 rounds...he'll be the club champion...and the C grade champion. So no one is disadvantaged in that regard.

 

So try to put aside your disdain for the concept of graded champions, and let me know your thoughts please.

 

Thanks if you managed to read this far.


Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
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Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
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#2 PerryGroves

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:10 PM

I'm not sure moving things around just to fit a given set of participants is something I would encourage.

 

You would probably get more participants in the other grades if you changed it to 2 qualifying rounds and then matchplay. Limited punters looking to do 4 rounds of stroke.

 

Going to matchplay after qualifying also gives you an opportunity to run an A and C grade plate. The A grade would be for 5-10 markers. As a member of this group, its a good comp for those of us that can't keep up with the plus markers.

 

We don't play enough matchplay out here.


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#3 Goldy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:13 PM

I'm not sure moving things around just to fit a given set of participants is something I would encourage.

 

You would probably get more participants in the other grades if you changed it to 2 qualifying rounds and then matchplay. Limited punters looking to do 4 rounds of stroke.

 

Going to matchplay after qualifying also gives you an opportunity to run an A and C grade plate. The A grade would be for 5-10 markers. As a member of this group, its a good comp for those of us that can't keep up with the plus markers.

 

We don't play enough matchplay out here.

 

I like the concept.

 

What we have done this year is make the graded comps best 3 of 4 rounds. First time for that...partly to help boost numbers for those that potentially can't make all 4 weeks...I know I was in that exact position last year.

 

But the gross prize is always 4 rounds.


Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink


#4 OldBogey

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:17 PM

I've mentioned previously how grossly uneven Warragul's Champ grades are split (around 50% in B, 40% in C and 5% each in A and D).

I believe that the fairest way is to divide the field as evenly as practicable between each grade. Yes, some will have little chance after being dumped in the top end of a grade, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Actually, I think that each grade should be decided on nett score, not gross, with the exception that the Champ had the best gross score of the club. Then everyone has a fair chance of winning something. Some clubs run a match play playoff to determine the best player of close contenders.
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#5 Goldy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:29 PM

Each grade is decided by Net score. And as such, it really shouldn't matter which end of a grade someone ends up in...they need to shoot a better score relative to their handicap to the rest of the players in their grade.

 

I agree that evening the numbers in each grade would be a fair thing...hence the OP.

 

The gross score determines the Club Champion...an open comp to all who enter.


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Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink


#6 The Robinator

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:36 PM

My club has a different grading set up during club champs to any other time of the year. Up to 5 is A grade, 6-11 is A Reserve and 12-18 is B, C is 19+. The best gross score is club champion regardless of grade. 


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#7 iTurf1.0.2

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:49 PM

I for one am a c grader, and know that I won't be club champion while ever my arse points to the ground. To win it on handicap would be a hollow victory. Even to win the C grade championship on handicap would be hollow.


Anyway I did read all the OP, and my suggestions are as follows;

A grade + markers - 10
B grade 11 - 18
C grade 19 - 36


Hope this eases your burden on decision making
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#8 iRON MiCK

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:54 PM

Championship should always be for best Gross. Anything else is for giggles. Why even have grades.
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Off my face, made the cut.............

 

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#9 Goldy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:55 PM

Championship should always be for best Gross. Anything else is for giggles. Why even have grades.

 

I more or less said that. But if you're going to conduct a graded comp as well, I'm looking for some opinion on the matter.

 

Thanks for playing.


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Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink


#10 iRON MiCK

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:58 PM

I only hope that the rest of the community can give you the feedback you are hoping for

Off my face, made the cut.............

 

2017 VIC ISG OOM Champion

2017 VIC OOM #5 Gardiners Run Winner

http://www.golf.org....icap/3023100698

"Team Frank" founding member

 

 


#11 Goldy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:59 PM

As do I.


Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink


#12 Snappy McSnapperton

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:11 PM

We went through this last year. i’ll talk you through it at some stage.

If I can win an OOM anyone can. 
 
http://www.golflink....k_no=3012646041

 

 


#13 Goldy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:12 PM

Thank you sir.

 

I'll just add that the general consensus at this point is that the "usual" handicap cutoffs will apply, and that the grades will remain out of balance.

 

I am arguing for the balance up.


Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink


#14 Cats are Farked

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:17 PM

Are carts allowed during the Club Championships?

Can members bring their own cart?

Asking for a fri... kok and his cat.
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#15 Goldy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:18 PM

Are carts allowed during the Club Championships?

Can members bring their own cart?

Asking for a fri... kok and his cat.

 

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

And I pity the cat.

 

No I don't.


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Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink





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