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Handicaps, Social Rounds And Virtual Golf Clubs


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#31 OldBogey

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 04:57 PM

One of the clubs that I'm a member of is based at a public-access course. Club membership includes all the club stuff but no playing rights, although season tickets are available. It would be unreasonable to expect any other golf club/course to provide us with use of their facility without a charge for green fees.

On the other side of the coin (or multi-faceted die) is the private club whose members have a full reciprocal arrangement with another private club.

In between is every possible combination of part reciprocal, 'full membership' only reciprocal, or 'no arrangements'. Considering the wide range of membership types available these days, it is understandable that clubs have some difficulty determining whether a visitor is worthy of any special allowance.

In West Gippsland, all WG clubs have full reciprocal rights at all other WG clubs with just a comp fee payable, but there are some restrictions on Saturday comps.
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#32 bazinoz

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 06:06 PM

They are discriminating against GA hcp holders. All our regular group who have virtual hcps have GA handicaps. None of them will play a comp at Redland Bay while this is in place. 

 

Not sure how they are discriminating? They are charging full green fees to people who have no actual physical club membership, just  a GL number. Surely if you have only paid for a handicap, you'd expect to pay green fees? Just the same as if you were a social visitor.

 

 

But yeah, I understand folk are a bit miffed about it, maybe rightly. Good reason to go play at clubs that just charge a lesser fee to play as if they had a full membership somewhere. But I think you will find shortly that every club will do this kind of charging structure.



#33 pom

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 06:15 PM

They are discriminating against GA hcp holders. All our regular group who have virtual hcps have GA handicaps. None of them will play a comp at Redland Bay while this is in place. 

It is not discrimination. Reciprocal rights means that  there is an agreement between the 2 clubs and therefore they only have to pay reduced green fees if any. With the virtual players there is no agreement. Reciprocal rights are based on the fact that players from both clubs will visit the other club. You can hardly expect the clubs to give the same deals to members with these virtual handicap when there is no chance for an even share.

 Players are taking these special deals to save money ( that is play for less money) The only losers here are the clubs if they let these players play for the same cost as their own members or those from reciprocal clubs. If they did not differentiate between the different memberships more & more players would take on the cheaper memberships & you can figure out for yourself where that would lead.


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#34 GeoffDickson

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 06:18 PM

I think we are getting a better understanding of all the nuances in this issue. Thanks for all the contributions.

If there is a restraint of trade issue In all of this, it will be between the clubs, not between a golfer and a club.

It still seems somewhat rubbery - some golf club members with a GA/GA handicap are treated differentially on the basis of their club's business model. This differential treatment is what underpins my restraint of trade 'theory'.

#35 pom

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 06:25 PM

But it is not the club so much as the type of membership. Some of our members are 5 day members because  they do not play on weekends. If they do play on the weekend they must pay green fees. For this they get a large reduction in their membership. Do you believe that these players should be allowed to play at other clubs on the weekend. for the same comp fee as 7 day members?

 Let me add to this as I am in the perfect position to do so. I am at the moment on the road travelling around Australia. As such I did not wish to pay full fees to a club where I would not be playing. I took out one of these cheap memberships at Howlong Golf club because all I wanted was a club I could call my home club for handicapping purposes.

  However, I fully expect to pay full green fees on top of the competition fees at wherever I play and I am quite happy to do so.


Edited by pom, 27 January 2018 - 06:33 PM.

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#36 OldBogey

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 07:59 PM

I think we are getting a better understanding of all the nuances in this issue. Thanks for all the contributions.
If there is a restraint of trade issue In all of this, it will be between the clubs, not between a golfer and a club.
It still seems somewhat rubbery - some golf club members with a GA/GA handicap are treated differentially on the basis of their club's business model. This differential treatment is what underpins my restraint of trade 'theory'.


Instead of 'restraint of trade', it's more a question of membership benefits and whether such a benefit might exist if the member plays elsewhere and on what day.

#37 The Robinator

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:43 PM

Not sure how they are discriminating? They are charging full green fees to people who have no actual physical club membership, just  a GL number. Surely if you have only paid for a handicap, you'd expect to pay green fees? Just the same as if you were a social visitor.

 

 

But yeah, I understand folk are a bit miffed about it, maybe rightly. Good reason to go play at clubs that just charge a lesser fee to play as if they had a full membership somewhere. But I think you will find shortly that every club will do this kind of charging structure.

Its okay Baz, I'll still show up and win your back marker events even if the others won't.


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#38 Commish

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 10:29 PM

Each State seems to have a different variant on how it's respective body does things.  GA is the over arching body and it seems that they will allow any kind of handicap for the purpose of indicating an increase in playing numbers. Realistically, GA does feck all for club golf as far as unifying procedural matters between States.  GNSW is different to GVic as is GQld and every other state.  I mean really depending on which State you live in you can get a GA golf handicap and have it golflinked via numerous methods.  What may seem the norm in one state is weird to other states.  The way that Vic does things compared to NSW is totally different and I as a NSWelshman find some of the things that Vic associations do quite accommodating, yet others a tad weird.  I am sure the Vics find the same about NSW.  Qld seems to be a mix of both.  Not sure about the other states, but I'm sure there would be differences and similarities.

 

From my understanding of what Geoff D wants or is expressing in his other thread...... He has not even joined a fecking club yet, but just wants to play social rounds during comp conditions, have his scored uploaded to golflink but not pay to be in the comp.  OR have a virtual handicap through one of the various Vic means and be able to play anywhere but not have to pay full freight. If that is the case... stick with the RACV membership, play whatever course will accept you and pay whatever freight they ask.  You will still probably come out better off than paying a joining fee and full membership.  Either that, or stop ya fu cking whining and pay up for the enjoyment of the game.  What is the norm in NZ is not the norm in Aust.  As it is so in every golfing country in the world.  

 

If you want to play during comp times but just socially without paying comp fees.. Ask the prospective club if they allow it.. If they don't... don't join.  If they do, problem solved.  If you want to take up a virtual membership, that is fine, but expect to pay whatever the freight is that the respective club asks.  Golf clubs have the right to determine who and how they let people play on their course.  We may not like some of the requirements, but if we don't we have a choice as well.

 

As for them asking you to pay more than what you expect, or you not being able to play at the time, or have cards marked and uploaded onto golflink, it is their choice.  You believing it to be a restraint of trade =  Hot Cocky ****.  At what point are you an employee, directly contracted too or derive a living from the respective golf club?? 


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#39 PerryGroves

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 07:19 AM

 

 

If you want to play during comp times but just socially without paying comp fees.. Ask the prospective club if they allow it.. If they don't... don't join.  If they do, problem solved.  If you want to take up a virtual membership, that is fine, but expect to pay whatever the freight is that the respective club asks.  Golf clubs have the right to determine who and how they let people play on their course.  We may not like some of the requirements, but if we don't we have a choice as well.

 

 

 

Seems to be the answer Commish, people arguing what should or shouldn't happen based on their own club finances is pointless.

 

Some clubs appear to value the extra revenue they generate out of comp fees, whilst we do as well, if Geoff fronts up, pays his joining fee and yearly subs, i'm sure we would make an exception.

 

2 kms down the road they wouldn't.


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#40 iRON MiCK

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 09:37 AM

In Victoria we have GoldyLink. It works for me.

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#41 bazinoz

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 03:20 PM

Its okay Baz, I'll still show up and win your back marker events even if the others won't.

 

I'm not sure you shouted enough from the tree tops about that game Rob.

 

I would've if I had played it. What was it? Nett 65 under black marker conditions? Wish I'd been in your group to witness it.



#42 OldBogey

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 03:28 PM

I'm not sure you shouted enough from the tree tops about that game Rob.
 
I would've if I had played it. What was it? Nett 65 under black marker conditions? Wish I'd been in your group to witness it.

No need to witness it, we've all heard about it.
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#43 GeoffDickson

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 08:21 PM

Commish...read post 1 and post 34.

#44 pegasus2357

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:50 PM

A golfer is a member of a bricks and mortar golf club as well as a virtual golf club (e.g. RACV Golf).

Bricks and Mortar (BM) do not allow social rounds to count for handicap. ....or perhaps more accurately, BM does not process these cards for handicapping purposes.

RACV Golf is recognised by Golf Australia and is part of the Golflink system.

Player indicates that RACV is their club for handicapping purposes.

Player plays social rounds at BM and meets all of the expectations of both the RACV and Golf Australia's Conforming Social Round (CSR) policy.

Player is comfortable with handicap being underpinned by social rounds.

In addition, player also enters the occasional club completion at BM.

Presumably there is only one Golflink handicap per player.

On what basis can BM reject the players handicap?

 

 

I think we are getting a better understanding of all the nuances in this issue. Thanks for all the contributions.

If there is a restraint of trade issue In all of this, it will be between the clubs, not between a golfer and a club.

It still seems somewhat rubbery - some golf club members with a GA/GA handicap are treated differentially on the basis of their club's business model. This differential treatment is what underpins my restraint of trade 'theory'.

 

Geoff

I've been looking on and reading this thread and the other that you started and I am slightly confused

You state you want to get to scratch but only want to play rounds that would be classified as social to do so.... that seems to me to a contradiction

One would think the challenge of reaching scratch would be aided by going head to head with other low markers at a B M club and challenging them as well as your goal of personal par...

 

As to holding a "virtual handicap" whilst being a member of a B M club hmmmm that faark those who like to massage their handicaps at my place haven't cottoned on to that idea...

 

When I play comp on weekends I am charged $18 a round. $12 green fees and $6 comp..... Green fees goes to course maintenance.... take into consideration annual membership is only $200 so it is basically a user pay format..... Maybe if you made an offer to your bricks and mortar club that you are happy to pay something on Saturday towards green fees but not the comp are you then prepared to process my card for handicapping purposes???

 

Just some slightly confused thoughts 


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#45 Commish

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 08:19 PM

Commish...read post 1 and post 34.

 

Yeah done that and I'll stick with post 38 thanks.

 

Maybe you should read them again yourself and see where the contradictions lay.  Especially given you other thread when you try and tie them in together.  Very confusing to try and see where you are coming from or the point you are trying to make.


The key to success is to learn to do something right, then do it right every time. Oh I wish.....
Three time winner of the treasured WBT.
2012 ISG National Champs 2nd Round winner @ Robina Woods
2013 ISG National Champs 1st Round winner @ 'The Dunes'
2014 ISG National Champs - Top 10 finish - Played like a girl - MUNT GOLFER
2015 ISG National Champs - Deservedly crowned the National N.A.G.A.
2016 ISG National Champs 4BBB champion with Francie
2017 ISG National Champs - I was there and the only thing that saved me was more BEER.
Hole in One - Rosnay GC, 157 metre Par 3 - 27th February 2015

http://www.golflink....k_no=2030804409




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