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Handicaps, Social Rounds And Virtual Golf Clubs


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#16 OldBogey

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:35 PM

So a club can refuse to recognise an official Golf Australia handicap? Interesting.
From what I can see there's are only Golf Australia handicaps....I don't see virtual or non virtual mentioned in any of the policy documents. Happy to be pointed in the right direction if this is incorrect.


You are quite correct, but you knew that.
So clubs get around that by being selective in some other way as to who may be allowed into the relevant comp.

#17 GeoffDickson

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:49 PM

You are quite correct, but you knew that.
So clubs get around that by being selective in some other way as to who may be allowed into the relevant comp.


For better or worse, I have no interest in playing in comps at other clubs....and as you have read in the other thread, I have only marginal interest in playing in comps at my bricks and mortar club, whatever that ends up being.

I am being deliberately provactive here....but when I see phrases like "selective in some other way" (or actions to that effect) I immediately think "restraint of trade". I am not sure that it is, but it at least quacks like a duck.

Edited by GeoffDickson, 26 January 2018 - 06:53 PM.


#18 The Robinator

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:54 PM

So a club can refuse to recognise an official Golf Australia handicap? Interesting.

From what I can see there's are only Golf Australia handicaps....I don't see virtual or non virtual mentioned in any of the policy documents. Happy to be pointed in the right direction if this is incorrect.

Yep, one of my friends has been told he won't be able to use his virtual ,GA recognised hcp in this particular private courses club comps. Others at other course will be charged more than a BM hcp.



#19 pom

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:14 PM

For better or worse, I have no interest in playing in comps at other clubs....and as you have read in the other thread, I have only marginal interest in playing in comps at my bricks and mortar club, whatever that ends up being.

I am being deliberately provactive here....but when I see phrases like "selective in some other way" (or actions to that effect) I immediately think "restraint of trade". I am not sure that it is, but it at least quacks like a duck.

They are simply trying to protect their business.

  Some clubs offer these cheap memberships because they know that the players will never play at the course so they are getting something for almost nothing. This is encouraged by GA because they say it gets more players playing the game. in reality these Virtual clubs & cheap memberships devalue the game. Sure more players now have handicaps and the figures look good but is there actually an increase in the numbers plaing the game an d an increase in the cash flow from these "extra players or is it all just smoke I mirrors whilst more & more clubs are struggling to keep their heads above water.


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#20 GeoffDickson

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:17 PM

Yep, one of my friends has been told he won't be able to use his virtual ,GA recognised hcp in this particular private courses club comps. Others at other course will be charged more than a BM hcp.


Charged more? Now it is smelling like a duck.

So if he can't use his Golf Australia handicap, can he still play during the comp at the other club? And if he is, does he still have to pay the comp fee?

This dilemma gets more intriguing with every post.

#21 GeoffDickson

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:23 PM

They are simply trying to protect their business.
.


Agreed. But this is never going to be a successful argument in any conversation about restraint of trade. It explains the behaviour but it does not justify it.

I think the restraint of trade criteria has phrases like reasonable or unreasonable, exploiting a dominant position in the market place plus a few others.

#22 OldBogey

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:39 PM

Private members' club for members and invited guests who are willing to pay the specified visitor fees.

#23 Can Break 80

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:40 PM

For better or worse, I have no interest in playing in comps at other clubs....and as you have read in the other thread, I have only marginal interest in playing in comps at my bricks and mortar club, whatever that ends up being.

 

 

Early on you said you want to get to scratch, a fantastic goal indeed.

 

Q. Then how do you propose to bring your handicap down to scratch if you dont play in club comps and  enter scores in golf link.?

 

Also if you are going to claim to be a true scratch golfer, then surely you would want  to see how your game stood up at the best courses off the black tees and play against other scratch golfers on as many courses as possible.


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#24 The Robinator

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 08:02 PM

Charged more? Now it is smelling like a duck.

So if he can't use his Golf Australia handicap, can he still play during the comp at the other club? And if he is, does he still have to pay the comp fee?

This dilemma gets more intriguing with every post.

Redland Bay golf club in Brisbane charges more for comps for visitors with virtual hcps over members of BM clubs. Private golf clubs can do what they like I am guessing. A few clubs in the Sth Qld are are no longer accepting certain hcps to be used to enter their comps. Seems to be a trend emerging as I have heard of the same at a few other clubs. As a full member at a club I am not too bothered.



#25 GeoffDickson

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 08:21 PM

Early on you said you want to get to scratch, a fantastic goal indeed.
 
Q. Then how do you propose to bring your handicap down to scratch if you dont play in club comps and  enter scores in golf link.?
 
Also if you are going to claim to be a true scratch golfer, then surely you would want  to see how your game stood up at the best courses off the black tees and play against other scratch golfers on as many courses as possible.



I will play in club comps...but would prefer to also include non comp rounds. It looks like I can do this by virtue of my RACV Golf membership.

For me a true scratch golfer is someone who has a Golf Australia handicap of 0.0 or better. If you do that without cheating or breaking any rules, then you can claim it. Your other criteria is not part of my thinking. It won't bother me if someone says he only plays only on his home track and he included non-comp rounds.

#26 GeoffDickson

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 08:24 PM

Redland Bay golf club in Brisbane charges more for comps for visitors with virtual hcps over members of BM clubs. Private golf clubs can do what they like I am guessing. A few clubs in the Sth Qld are are no longer accepting certain hcps to be used to enter their comps. Seems to be a trend emerging as I have heard of the same at a few other clubs. As a full member at a club I am not too bothered.

Private golf clubs can do what they like....until the courts tell them to stop.

And for the sake of clarity, I think a club should be able to define who it allows into their own competition. If they define it as golfers with GA handicap, then that seems highly appropriate. But if they say only GA handicaps that are acquired in the manner we like, then things get bit wobbly, a bit confusing and a little embarrassing for GA.

My assumption in all of this is the handicap is issued by GA for use by clubs. Maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it.

Edited by GeoffDickson, 26 January 2018 - 08:45 PM.


#27 PerryGroves

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:21 AM


I've lived in NZ for the last 14 years.

 

 

After enduring that sort of time in the little land you should be able to do whatever you want.

 

Mind you after having to deal with the vowel manglers for most of my working life, it appears you may have picked up a little of the "we do things differently here" which is code for you Australians are dumb as dogshit and we are right.



#28 bazinoz

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:52 AM

Redland Bay golf club in Brisbane charges more for comps for visitors with virtual hcps over members of BM clubs. Private golf clubs can do what they like I am guessing. A few clubs in the Sth Qld are are no longer accepting certain hcps to be used to enter their comps. Seems to be a trend emerging as I have heard of the same at a few other clubs. As a full member at a club I am not too bothered.

 

Rob, I think Redland Bay are charging golfers with virtual handicaps exactly what they charge any visitor without a handicap.

 

They give discounts to members of other clubs, and bigger discounts to reciprocal club members.

That has been the practice at most clubs I believe for a long time. The only thing that has recently changed is that players with a virtual handicap are now charged like visitors rather than as full paid up members of another club.

 

That sounds as it should be to me. If you are paying $100 just for a GL, then surely you should "pay as you go" full green fees?

 

Pretty sure that's not any kind of restraint of trade.


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#29 bazinoz

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 09:40 AM

Private golf clubs can do what they like....until the courts tell them to stop.

And for the sake of clarity, I think a club should be able to define who it allows into their own competition. If they define it as golfers with GA handicap, then that seems highly appropriate. But if they say only GA handicaps that are acquired in the manner we like, then things get bit wobbly, a bit confusing and a little embarrassing for GA.

My assumption in all of this is the handicap is issued by GA for use by clubs. Maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it.

 

I think you are right about the GL. When you pay for a membership of a club about $100 of that goes towards the GL. Probably paid to golf australia.

 

To clarify, my club Redland Bay mentioned above, does not exclude people from entering an open comp if they have a GL handicap. They just charge green fees if you are not a member of Redland Bay. There is a small charge if you are a member of a reciprocal club.Then a bit more if you are a member of another club not reciprocal. And full green fee if you are not a member of a B&M club but do hold a GL (virtual). I can't see what the problem is.

 

And actually, looking at the charges now, there are also full green fees payable by players with a "restricted membership" at their home club. ie ones where you pay say $200 for GL and 4 comp rounds at the home club. Up here in Brissie that includes Windaroo Bronze, Oxley "try and play" etc but also includes Howlong on that list (as a B&M club).

 

And that is how it should be as well. I had a Windaroo Bronze for a year a while back. It included 4 free rounds and then you paid green fees after that. Even at the home course. Not sure why you would expect a discount at another club for using their course under that membership.


Edited by bazinoz, 27 January 2018 - 09:43 AM.

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#30 The Robinator

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 03:48 PM

Rob, I think Redland Bay are charging golfers with virtual handicaps exactly what they charge any visitor without a handicap.

 

They give discounts to members of other clubs, and bigger discounts to reciprocal club members.

That has been the practice at most clubs I believe for a long time. The only thing that has recently changed is that players with a virtual handicap are now charged like visitors rather than as full paid up members of another club.

 

That sounds as it should be to me. If you are paying $100 just for a GL, then surely you should "pay as you go" full green fees?

 

Pretty sure that's not any kind of restraint of trade.

They are discriminating against GA hcp holders. All our regular group who have virtual hcps have GA handicaps. None of them will play a comp at Redland Bay while this is in place. 






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