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Australia Day

Aboriginal date change

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#31 ozdevil

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:14 PM

Yeah the first fleet full of convicts just came all this way for a cup of tea and we've all just misunderstood their intentions. 

 

convicts, hmmm in order for them to harm the aborigionals they would have to have been released or have escaped custody, not saying this didnt happen at all.... it probably did.... 

 

i know if i was on the first fleet as a convict  it wouldnt have been for a cuppa tea it would have been beer and a meat pie with the aboriginals

 

I just wonder how many of the Aborigionals who live of the land worry about what australia day is or even what invasion day really is and are they really that concerned about it


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#32 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:22 PM

convicts, hmmm in order for them to harm the aborigionals they would have to have been released or have escaped custody, not saying this didnt happen at all.... it probably did.... 

 

i know if i was on the first fleet as a convict  it wouldnt have been for a cuppa tea it would have been beer and a meat pie with the aboriginals

 

I just wonder how many of the Aborigionals who live of the land worry about what australia day is or even what invasion day really is and are they really that concerned about it

The convicts were escorted by British Soldiers and when they were released lived as free people, they were also often given land for free when they had served their sentence.

I dare say the number of Aboriginals who worry about Australia Day is quite small.

 



#33 ozdevil

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:27 PM

The convicts were escorted by British Soldiers and when they were released lived as free people, they were also often given land for free when they had served their sentence.

I dare say the number of Aboriginals who worry about Australia Day is quite small.

 

 

i wish they still gave land for free  

 

you are most likey correct  it is quite small  who worry about Australia day

 

the only peole i really see is the greenies  making out alot of rukus over this matter while the Aboriginals who still love life on the land  are minding their own business going about there daily routines  that has not asked the greens to stick there bibs in


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#34 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:35 PM

i wish they still gave land for free  

 

you are most likey correct  it is quite small  who worry about Australia day

 

the only peole i really see is the greenies  making out alot of rukus over this matter while the Aboriginals who still love life on the land  are minding their own business going about there daily routines  that has not asked the greens to stick there bibs in

Not sure they are in a position to worry about it, they are more likely to be worried about where they get their next meal or how to find shelter. 

It's a complex issue and the problems those people living in remote communities face may not be the same as the problems urban Aboriginals face. I really don't think it's the Greens fault this is happening though, it's not like they've ever been in a position of power to do anything to solve these problems. 


Edited by Itchy4Scratch, 17 January 2018 - 03:36 PM.


#35 Tolmij

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:46 PM

I worked for someone who had a farmer friend in the NT, as part of his lease he had to provide housing and schooling for any Aboriginal workers he employed, he only wanted to employ Aboriginals as they found it difficult to find work and he wanted to help. He built accomodation for them, shared for singles and seperate housing for families, they were of good construction and fully furnished. Some food was also provided as he had a mess hall that provided all meals for singles and some meals for families. All accomodation was given electricity and hot and cold running water.

Brilliant hey, within six months they were all destroyed and unusable, they broke up the furniture and set fires in the middle of the room to cook their locally caught meat. They did not want to work regular hours and only turned up when they wanted to.

Now this is not a knock Aboriginal post, because they were only doing what they had been doing for many generations, they did not want to live in houses, they did not want to work regular hours, what they wanted was to live as they always had, as long as they were left alone they were happy., Australia Day was not even on their radar.

The farmer was quite willing to give and take, cattle on those ranges did not require much tending, i was possible to do the job with them in a different way, the government would not allow it it was their way or not at all no farm, no work, this was some 35 years ago.

The point being, if they have land and access to hunting so they can live in a traditional way, the greater majority of them don’t care.

He gave up on the farm, left them to their own devices. End of story for what it’s worth.
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#36 Birdie Blitz

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:17 PM

I worked for someone who had a farmer friend in the NT, as part of his lease he had to provide housing and schooling for any Aboriginal workers he employed, he only wanted to employ Aboriginals as they found it difficult to find work and he wanted to help. He built accomodation for them, shared for singles and seperate housing for families, they were of good construction and fully furnished. Some food was also provided as he had a mess hall that provided all meals for singles and some meals for families. All accomodation was given electricity and hot and cold running water.

Brilliant hey, within six months they were all destroyed and unusable, they broke up the furniture and set fires in the middle of the room to cook their locally caught meat. They did not want to work regular hours and only turned up when they wanted to.

Now this is not a knock Aboriginal post, because they were only doing what they had been doing for many generations, they did not want to live in houses, they did not want to work regular hours, what they wanted was to live as they always had, as long as they were left alone they were happy., Australia Day was not even on their radar.

The farmer was quite willing to give and take, cattle on those ranges did not require much tending, i was possible to do the job with them in a different way, the government would not allow it it was their way or not at all no farm, no work, this was some 35 years ago.

The point being, if they have land and access to hunting so they can live in a traditional way, the greater majority of them don’t care.

He gave up on the farm, left them to their own devices. End of story for what it’s worth.

 

 

Hey Tolmij it's nice how you like your own post.   ;) 


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#37 Bluethunda

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:21 PM

we treat the white people the same TOL and they throw it back in our faces. I see more white people in Centrelink than indigenous people.


I don't give a flying fcuk, as it's another day off where the grass grows or dies depending on the weather and I have to play catch up over the next 4 days so golfers don't pis and moan about siht course conditions.


Govt caved in on SSM played Pontius Pilot and washed their hands of making that decision, same as the SA government as the ploughed a new road through an Anicient Aboriginal burial site, w/o blocking an eye.

Take all the money off the drugged up white fcuks in the community and spend it in Indigenious Affairs.

Wiradjiri all the way
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#38 Birdie Blitz

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:40 PM

I've held my tongue on this and believe that the topic has gotten right off track from the original post being with regards to Australia Day.

 

Recently I have changed jobs and are currently working with a number of very remote Aboriginal communities with regards to Aged Care. To be honest I don't think many people in very remote communities could give a "rat's toss bag" about Australia day (maybe different with the Urban population but I am not in a position to comment). But I do think coverage around the Australia day/Invasion day gives a platform to convey the plight of the Aboriginal people every year which is generally overlooked.

 

Aboriginal people have a lower life expectancy than most Third world countries - half of the males won't live past 45 and a third of females won't. The average life expectancy is around 10 years lower than the non-indigenous population. This is happening in our own give up not some where else, maybe we would be more compassionate if it was Africa and Bono went over there to sing a song but no it is the "lucky" countries dirty little secret that we can't provide adequate safe drinking water, housing, and education for a proportion of our population.

 

Sorry to go serious but it is an important topic.

 

Anyway how about that 3 putt!!! 


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#39 iRON MiCK

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:48 PM

I say to my white brothers and sisters. Have you ever wondered why this country we live in is so great? Is it location or is it the land is a spiritual place like no other on earth?
Are you ignorant enough to continue to ignore why this country is so special?
Recognize the traditional owners of the land and allow yourself to understand their culture and respect their rights.
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#40 Tolmij

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:57 PM

we treat the white people the same TOL and they throw it back in our faces. I see more white people in Centrelink than indigenous people.
I don't give a flying fcuk, as it's another day off where the grass grows or dies depending on the weather and I have to play catch up over the next 4 days so golfers don't pis and moan about siht course conditions.
Govt caved in on SSM played Pontius Pilot and washed their hands of making that decision, same as the SA government as the ploughed a new road through an Anicient Aboriginal burial site, w/o blocking an eye.
Take all the money off the drugged up white fcuks in the community and spend it in Indigenious Affairs.
Wiradjiri all the way



Agree, but the post was about the indiginouse attitude to it all, the majority don’t care and can and will live off the land. The whites need help from the taxpayer
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#41 *Mouldy

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:20 PM

I think the most relevant point is that changing Australia Day is the Greens key issue for 2018. The government did nothing in 2017 other than SSM.

How about the economy ? Get some growth and there will be more jobs and it will naturally relieve some social issues.

Anthropologists have spent more than 200 years trying to work out how to deal with indigenous peoples. It has been a disaster in every country. USA, Canada, Japan, Burma, New Zealand, Australia are a small snapshot of the failures.

Indigenous mortality rates are usually a product of diet and substance abuse. Those living a traditional life apparently live a lot longer than their urban cousins.

Friend's granddaughter is a doctor in FNQ. Her problem is patients not turning up so she can help them. In many areas there are good health services that are not used.

In short there is no answer and probably will never be an answer.

Changing the Australia Day date will have zero effect.
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#42 OldBogey

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:32 PM

I say to my white brothers and sisters. Have you ever wondered why this country we live in is so great? Is it location or is it the land is a spiritual place like no other on earth?
Are you ignorant enough to continue to ignore why this country is so special?
Recognize the traditional owners of the land and allow yourself to understand their culture and respect their rights.


That's fine until it impacts on my rights. It doesn't usually.

What annoys me is that I'm usually a good problem solver and solution finder. This one has me tossed. I don't know how to fix it, but changing the date won't help, as I said at the outset.

#43 goomboogo

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:51 PM

I am yet to hear a single person claim that changing the date of Australia Day will do anything to alter the living standards of any person. It's a really lazy straw man.


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#44 Weetbix

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 11:00 PM

My family has direct experience like Birdie Blitz. There is no shortage of housing and medical facilities. The issue is that it is not how aboriginal people live. It's a white world solution in an aboriginal world.

Which IMO is why despite the significant sums spent by governments of both persuasions conditions haven't improved. The way aboriginal people live - in a traditional sense - does not gel with how we live so when we try and provide a solution it doesn't work.

There are many highly gifted aboriginal people who are part of the solution - and they can't solve it either.

If anyone believes that the reason that life spans remain so low is because the Australian government's and people don't care and refuse to provide the resources required then I disagree with you. There are enormous sums available. There aren't clear solutions that actually work to implement.

The aboriginal culture is so deeply and fundamentally different to ours that the solutions we have available - even the ones that are thought of by aboriginal leaders themselves - don't work.

As for Australia Day if it could be demonstrated that a significant number of aboriginal people feel that it is insensitive then change it. It won't affect me which day it is. It won't hurt anyone who disagrees with changing it either. The aboriginal people have a lot of issues to deal with so it's a small thing for everyone else to celebrate on a different date.
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#45 BumpunRun

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 06:13 AM

My family has direct experience like Birdie Blitz. There is no shortage of housing and medical facilities. The issue is that it is not how aboriginal people live. It's a white world solution in an aboriginal world.

Which IMO is why despite the significant sums spent by governments of both persuasions conditions haven't improved. The way aboriginal people live - in a traditional sense - does not gel with how we live so when we try and provide a solution it doesn't work.

There are many highly gifted aboriginal people who are part of the solution - and they can't solve it either.

If anyone believes that the reason that life spans remain so low is because the Australian government's and people don't care and refuse to provide the resources required then I disagree with you. There are enormous sums available. There aren't clear solutions that actually work to implement.

The aboriginal culture is so deeply and fundamentally different to ours that the solutions we have available - even the ones that are thought of by aboriginal leaders themselves - don't work.

As for Australia Day if it could be demonstrated that a significant number of aboriginal people feel that it is insensitive then change it. It won't affect me which day it is. It won't hurt anyone who disagrees with changing it either. The aboriginal people have a lot of issues to deal with so it's a small thing for everyone else to celebrate on a different date.

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