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Declaring A Ball Lost


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#1 BarnEsy05

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:17 AM

My understanding is that you can’t actually “declare your ball lost”.

By not declaring provisional when you play another ball if you think your original ball might be lost, automatically puts the original out of play, even if found. If you play a provisional can’t cant find your ball after searching, once you have played the provisional again it becomes the ball in play. You can say don’t worry about it but you can’t officially declare it lost, you just move on.

Recently I was Marshaling at a Pro-am when I happened arrive at a hole with a spotter. One pro pulled his Drive hard left into the bush,we heard it but didn’t see it land. He played another, assuming it was declared provisional, straight down the midde.

I went to search for his ball, found what I thought might be his in a very unplayable position. As he approached me a asked him if he was playing a Titleist 1 with a red pen dot on it. His answer was in the affirmative and I turned to his ball telling him he won’t like where it is up in the bush. Next thing I know he has walked straight past and gone to his provisional ball and continued on.

The spotter and I chatted and agreed that he should DQ himself as his original was found. To confirm what we thought I put it to one of the members who referees matches all over the country, hypothetically. (didn’t want to create a scene) What happens if a spotter finds the original ball but a player ignores the fact and continues with his provisional?

His reply was that no matter who finds the ball, player, caddy, official, spotter, gallery or even a dog, the player is obliged to investigate to determine if it is in fact his ball and if so, assess what his next option with it is. In this case he would have had no other option but to take it back to the tee and replay the shot with a penalty, there was no chance of 2 club lengths or line of sight drops.

Of course we have no way of knowing if he called provisional or not but you would think as he was playing an event for money he would have done the right thing.

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#2 rogolf

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:24 AM

That is precisely why forecaddies and marshals should be instructed not to look for player's balls until the player reaches the area and begins looking himself.  Once the player reaches the area, he may decide that he doesn't want his original ball found.


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#3 Deege

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 04:36 PM

That is precisely why forecaddies and marshals should be instructed not to look for player's balls until the player reaches the area and begins looking himself.  Once the player reaches the area, he may decide that he doesn't want his original ball found.

 

Presumably, the player's preference as to whether the ball is looked for or not can't prevent the ball being found.  The whole purpose of having spotters and marshals is to assist with preventing delays caused by just this situation.  It seems silly to instruct them not to look for the ball unless and until the player decides that he wants them to.  I would be more inclined to think that players have to take the good with the bad in relation to spotters and marshals.


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#4 AAA

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

It is the player's right not to search and to ask others not to also. Fellow competitors and opponents have the right to search.

However, those not involved (referees, observers, spotters and the general public) should not get involved until or unless the player indicates his intent.

The Open Championship advise spotters that they should only indicate that the general direction of the ball's finishing location and whether or not it may be findable. They don't actively attempt to locate the ball until the player says so. Incidentally, referees take no part in searching. They just watch the player's actions.

 

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Edited by AAA, 12 December 2017 - 05:41 PM.


#5 BarnEsy05

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:30 PM

Even so, the fact that the ball was found and made known to the player who acknowledged it was his when described to him, surely he is obliged to continue with that ball, he cannot ignore it and move on to his provisional ball. 


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2015 ISG National Championships...21st place...that's farked

2016 ISG National Championships...waaaaay down the list.

2016 ISG National Championships...2nd place Yarra Yarra Satellite Game 

2016 ISG National Championships...2nd place Huntingdale Satellite Game

2016 ISG National Championships...Captain of winning NSW Team, SOO

2017 ISG National Championships...12th place...heading in the right direction

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#6 AAA

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 04:26 AM

You are correct.

In fact, if a ball is found during a search, the player is required to identify it. He can't just ignore it. If it is not his, OK. If it is, he must continue with it.

 

Decision 27/13

http://www.usga.org/...ision-27,d27-13


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#7 pom

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:22 PM

My understanding is that you can’t actually “declare your ball lost”.

By not declaring provisional when you play another ball if you think your original ball might be lost, automatically puts the original out of play, even if found. If you play a provisional can’t cant find your ball after searching, once you have played the provisional again it becomes the ball in play. You can say don’t worry about it but you can’t officially declare it lost, you just move on.

Recently I was Marshaling at a Pro-am when I happened arrive at a hole with a spotter. One pro pulled his Drive hard left into the bush,we heard it but didn’t see it land. He played another, assuming it was declared provisional, straight down the midde.

I went to search for his ball, found what I thought might be his in a very unplayable position. As he approached me a asked him if he was playing a Titleist 1 with a red pen dot on it. His answer was in the affirmative and I turned to his ball telling him he won’t like where it is up in the bush. Next thing I know he has walked straight past and gone to his provisional ball and continued on.

The spotter and I chatted and agreed that he should DQ himself as his original was found. To confirm what we thought I put it to one of the members who referees matches all over the country, hypothetically. (didn’t want to create a scene) What happens if a spotter finds the original ball but a player ignores the fact and continues with his provisional?

His reply was that no matter who finds the ball, player, caddy, official, spotter, gallery or even a dog, the player is obliged to investigate to determine if it is in fact his ball and if so, assess what his next option with it is. In this case he would have had no other option but to take it back to the tee and replay the shot with a penalty, there was no chance of 2 club lengths or line of sight drops.

Of course we have no way of knowing if he called provisional or not but you would think as he was playing an event for money he would have done the right thing.

I would suggest that the best thing to do in that situation if you find the ball is wait until you know if the player is going to look for his ball before informing him that you have found it. That way it is the players decision.


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#8 AAA

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:49 PM

I would suggest that the best thing to do in that situation if you find the ball is wait until you know if the player is going to look for his ball before informing him that you have found it. That way it is the players decision.

Don't you think that if you find the (ie his) ball, you are obliged to tell him?

 

Simply don't search unless he does.


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#9 Deege

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:11 AM

I would suggest that the best thing to do in that situation if you find the ball is wait until you know if the player is going to look for his ball before informing him that you have found it. That way it is the players decision.

 

If the ball is found in the crap, but you don't tell the player, is the ball still lost?


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#10 OldBogey

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:14 PM

If the ball is found in the crap, but you don't tell the player, is the ball still lost?

 

Yes, it's still lost, until the player identifies it as being his.

 

If the player is kept in ignorance, he can't be blamed (penalised) for not doing the right thing.



#11 OldBogey

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:23 PM

I've had experienced/low handicapped players ask me "why I'm going back to the tee, just use your provisional".

 

I had a good friend of mine 'stir' me one day by finding my original ball which was deep into the scrub and totally unplayable, after I'd hit a particularly good provisional and I was reluctant to take more than a cursory look for the original.



#12 BumpunRun

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:36 PM

I just have the view that the result of a round of golf should be representative of the player's ability, not his lawyer's.


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#13 OldBogey

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:29 PM

I just have the view that the result of a round of golf should be representative of the player's ability, not his lawyer's.


Well quoted Bumpy.

#14 BumpunRun

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:37 PM

Well quoted Bumpy.

Thank you Obe, means a lot coming from you. My favourite part is how it's funny that you hit your ball into the poop, but expected the rules to get you out of a bad situation rather than skill.
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#15 pom

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:03 PM

The reason for having spotters on the course is to save time. This way if the spotter discovers the ball but does not say anything, unless asked, the player gets the choice & no rules have been broken.

 

Don't you think that if you find the (ie his) ball, you are obliged to tell him?

 

Simply don't search unless he does.

The reason for having spotters on the course is to save time. This way if the spotter discovers the ball but does not say anything, unless asked, the player gets the choice & no rules have been broken.

 

If the ball is found in the crap, but you don't tell the player, is the ball still lost?

As far as the player is concerned yes.


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