Jump to content


 

Photo

Ball Not Lost In Hazard


  • Please log in to reply
77 replies to this topic

#61 pom

pom

    Old Grouch.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11908 posts
  • Locationtownsville

Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:09 PM

But seriously who would remember that a GUR only extends down while a hazard extends up and down? Why wouldn't the rule makers just make all boundaries the same?

And even if somehow I remembered that, I would be some sort of prodigy as a player - as opposed to an official - to remember that extending down actually means that a rooted object extending upwards is included in its totality, whereas extending up means that the same rooted object only is included to the point it is inside the upward extension.

That's truly bizarre rules there.

One is a free relief situation. The other is relief with penalty.


Member of the Vision Test Pilot Project.
No VTPP11

#62 Weetbix

Weetbix

    Par in my sight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 42450 posts
  • LocationBrisbane, Queensland

Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:15 PM

One is a free relief situation. The other is relief with penalty.


Sure

But does that make the link to extension down only vs up and down logical?

I can at least make a case about 2 club lengths with penalty because it's a penalty but the extension of the line?

Don't get me wrong - it is what it is - I'm just saying that expecting a person who plays once a week to have any idea about that is stretching reality

Handicap
Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016
Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands, 15/4/18 16th Carbrook
Goal: A round at par or better!
Brisbane Fairways 2015 Club Champion

2018 Nationals 4BBB Champion with Commish
Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island
Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands
Winner: 2017 Nationals day 5 round at Bonnie Doon

​Winner: 2018 Nationals day 2 round at Kooralbyn

​Winner: 2018 Nationals day 3 round at Sanctuary Cove Pines
South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer
http://www.brisbanef...ssocialgolf.com - Treasurer


#63 pom

pom

    Old Grouch.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11908 posts
  • Locationtownsville

Posted 15 December 2017 - 08:12 AM

Sure

But does that make the link to extension down only vs up and down logical?

I can at least make a case about 2 club lengths with penalty because it's a penalty but the extension of the line?

Don't get me wrong - it is what it is - I'm just saying that expecting a person who plays once a week to have any idea about that is stretching reality

You are getting into an area that I feel strongly about. :). As I have stated often before. The majority of golfers learn the rules from other golfers. Many carry a rule book ( because they are free ) but have never read it . And then expect to immediatly find a solution when a situation arrises on the course. They then complain that the rules are difficult because they have never read the book or even learned how to use it. Many would not  look at the definitions section at all and that is probably the most important section to understand.


  • Fill the Dill and The B T like this
Member of the Vision Test Pilot Project.
No VTPP11

#64 rogolf

rogolf

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 547 posts

Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:17 AM

You are getting into an area that I feel strongly about. :). As I have stated often before. The majority of golfers learn the rules from other golfers. Many carry a rule book ( because they are free ) but have never read it . And then expect to immediately find a solution when a situation arises on the course. They then complain that the rules are difficult because they have never read the book or even learned how to use it. Many would not  look at the definitions section at all and that is probably the most important section to understand.

 

Just wait until January 1, 2019 when the memory of nearly all golfers will need to be uninstalled and then re-installed.  And those in the southern hemisphere get to experience it first.  There might be confusion amongst the masses, officials included.  But, maybe, just maybe, the new book will be opened.


Edited by rogolf, 15 December 2017 - 11:18 AM.

  • OldBogey and pom like this

#65 Weetbix

Weetbix

    Par in my sight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 42450 posts
  • LocationBrisbane, Queensland

Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:37 AM

You are getting into an area that I feel strongly about. :). As I have stated often before. The majority of golfers learn the rules from other golfers. Many carry a rule book ( because they are free ) but have never read it . And then expect to immediatly find a solution when a situation arrises on the course. They then complain that the rules are difficult because they have never read the book or even learned how to use it. Many would not look at the definitions section at all and that is probably the most important section to understand.

I'm sure you're right Pom but are you realistically suggesting that after one or two reads of the rules that a golfer is likely to recall which boundaries extend up vs which don't? And what that means for a rooted plant in each situation?

I don't think that's likely

And I don't get why you would have different rules

Edited by Weetbix, 15 December 2017 - 11:38 AM.

Handicap
Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016
Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands, 15/4/18 16th Carbrook
Goal: A round at par or better!
Brisbane Fairways 2015 Club Champion

2018 Nationals 4BBB Champion with Commish
Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island
Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands
Winner: 2017 Nationals day 5 round at Bonnie Doon

​Winner: 2018 Nationals day 2 round at Kooralbyn

​Winner: 2018 Nationals day 3 round at Sanctuary Cove Pines
South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer
http://www.brisbanef...ssocialgolf.com - Treasurer


#66 BumpunGrind

BumpunGrind

    Year of the Day

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13412 posts
  • LocationThirteen point twenty-four warning points

Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:01 PM

I'm sure you're right Pom but are you realistically suggesting that after one or two reads of the rules that a golfer is likely to recall which boundaries extend up vs which don't? And what that means for a rooted plant in each situation?

I don't think that's likely

And I don't get why you would have different rules

it's not necessarily remembering specifically which ones go up and which ones only go down, it's about understanding the definitions and what they mean.

 

Ground under repair is part of the course proper, which has a temporary change to it. This is in the same vein as a pathway or an immovable obstruction, they are part of the course - their extents do not extend upwards, because that would be silly if they did. 

 

A hazard is not part of the course proper so the rules are applied accordingly. 

 

To me, it's pretty much that simple and follows the other rules related to this.

If you hit your ball in casual water and you're sure it's in there but can't see it to get it out, the ball is within part of the course so you get your free drop. Whereas, if your ball is lost in a hazard, you are penalised for that. 


#teamgrank

#theyarenotmypants

#hashtag


#67 OldBogey

OldBogey

    Defining and analysing humour is a pastime of humourless people

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24823 posts
  • LocationRegional Victoria

Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:38 PM

You buy a new board game to play with your grandchildren. Do you suggest no one bothers to read the rules?
 
What are these little cubes for? Can I use these bits of paper with $ signs in the local store? Why does it say Go to Jail?


I would read the rules so that I know what to do. But others would say "let's just play and if we get stuck we'll have a look at the rules then". If someone else suggests what to do, they'll go along with that, right or wrong.

Nobody buys board games any more. It's an outdated concept.
Golflink
Olinda Golf Club
Warragul Country Club
People say that nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
West Gippsland Veterans Champion 2017 & 2018
Olinda Golf Club B Grade champion 2018

#68 rogolf

rogolf

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 547 posts

Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:55 PM

I would read the rules so that I know what to do. But others would say "let's just play and if we get stuck we'll have a look at the rules then". If someone else suggests what to do, they'll go along with that, right or wrong.

Nobody buys board games any more. It's an outdated concept.

As I look for a specific board game (Mancala) as a Christmas present for my grandson, I don't agree.


  • Ari and pom like this

#69 OldBogey

OldBogey

    Defining and analysing humour is a pastime of humourless people

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24823 posts
  • LocationRegional Victoria

Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:59 PM

You are getting into an area that I feel strongly about. :). As I have stated often before. The majority of golfers learn the rules from other golfers. Many carry a rule book ( because they are free ) but have never read it . And then expect to immediatly find a solution when a situation arrises on the course. They then complain that the rules are difficult because they have never read the book or even learned how to use it. Many would not  look at the definitions section at all and that is probably the most important section to understand.


You are quite right, pom, they don't know the book. They're in a situation, pull out the book, go to the index thinking of a relevant word and it's not there. Think of a synonym and it's not there. Third try, fail, put the book away and claim the rules are too difficult, they're holding up play. Ask someone, get an answer (any answer will do) and play on.

Would they look in the definitions? Hell, no. They know what are bunkers, water hazards, obstructions and the boundary fence.

There's far too much tedium in the rules. So much that, for the great majority of players, it's 'over the top' and they couldn't be bothered. Not many have a 'legal' mind and don't want one. Let's not get started on the Decisions book.

The rules and decisions attempt to cover all possible situations and do a quite good job of that almost impossible task. Most players are not that 'into it' and don't want to be. Very few wish to become experts.
Golflink
Olinda Golf Club
Warragul Country Club
People say that nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
West Gippsland Veterans Champion 2017 & 2018
Olinda Golf Club B Grade champion 2018

#70 OldBogey

OldBogey

    Defining and analysing humour is a pastime of humourless people

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24823 posts
  • LocationRegional Victoria

Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:06 PM

As I look for a specific board game (Mancala) as a Christmas present for my grandson, I don't agree.


Ok, I take back "nobody" and suggest "few".

Just adding to AAA's reference to Monopoly, what percentage of players understand the way of handling mortgages? The rules of Monopoly fit on one page and even that is not learnt by all players. Why would those same people be any different when playing golf as a pasttime?
Golflink
Olinda Golf Club
Warragul Country Club
People say that nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
West Gippsland Veterans Champion 2017 & 2018
Olinda Golf Club B Grade champion 2018

#71 OldBogey

OldBogey

    Defining and analysing humour is a pastime of humourless people

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24823 posts
  • LocationRegional Victoria

Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:10 PM

Just wait until January 1, 2019 when the memory of nearly all golfers will need to be uninstalled and then re-installed.  And those in the southern hemisphere get to experience it first.  There might be confusion amongst the masses, officials included.  But, maybe, just maybe, the new book will be opened.


Unfortunately, it won't happen. They'll be just as bloody ignorant of the new rules, only more so.
Golflink
Olinda Golf Club
Warragul Country Club
People say that nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
West Gippsland Veterans Champion 2017 & 2018
Olinda Golf Club B Grade champion 2018

#72 rogolf

rogolf

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 547 posts

Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:02 PM

Unfortunately, it won't happen. They'll be just as bloody ignorant of the new rules, only more so.

So, you seem to be suggesting that changing the Rules won't improve knowledge or compliance?  And then, why bother?


  • BumpunGrind and pom like this

#73 OldBogey

OldBogey

    Defining and analysing humour is a pastime of humourless people

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24823 posts
  • LocationRegional Victoria

Posted 15 December 2017 - 04:51 PM

We can only hope.
Golflink
Olinda Golf Club
Warragul Country Club
People say that nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
West Gippsland Veterans Champion 2017 & 2018
Olinda Golf Club B Grade champion 2018

#74 pom

pom

    Old Grouch.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11908 posts
  • Locationtownsville

Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:03 PM

So, you seem to be suggesting that changing the Rules won't improve knowledge or compliance?  And then, why bother?

One can only hope that a few more will actually attempt to understand the rules. But then they would probably not use that knowledge for other players, they would rather ignore rules breeches  than bring them to a players attention. not realizing that if they play by the rules but do not help others to do the same they could actually be playing at some disadvantage.


Member of the Vision Test Pilot Project.
No VTPP11

#75 pom

pom

    Old Grouch.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11908 posts
  • Locationtownsville

Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:07 PM

I'm sure you're right Pom but are you realistically suggesting that after one or two reads of the rules that a golfer is likely to recall which boundaries extend up vs which don't? And what that means for a rooted plant in each situation?

I don't think that's likely

And I don't get why you would have different rules

Very few golfers know & understand all the rules but as has been said already. If you learn and understand the definitions you will then be able to more easily find the relevant rule to any situation. ( most of the time) :P


Member of the Vision Test Pilot Project.
No VTPP11




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users