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Ball Not Lost In Hazard


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#1 *Mouldy

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 01:08 PM

Mucking around on our last hole today the 10th. I tried for a ropey hook and succeeded in hitting a tree trunk adjacent to the lateral water hazard. We checked the OOB area which is clear ground and the ball wasn't on the fairway.

My marker and I decided it must have gone into the water from the tree. So I dropped between the tree and hazard and played my 3rd.

My marker shuffled along 30m or so and there is my ball in the rough.

I took a wipe as it was stableford and I don't get a shot.

Had it been stroke what is the correct procedure and score.

I know assuming it was in the water is incorrect but let's move along from there and assume my marker had seen a small splash.
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#2 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 01:33 PM

If the marker said they saw the splash you could say you were virtually certain it was in the hazard and proceed accordingly, dropping where it crossed.

That ball would be the ball in play regardless if whether or not you found the original after you dropped, even if the original was found outside the hazard.
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#3 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 01:40 PM

 

26-1/3

 

Q. A player believed his original ball had come to rest in a water hazard. He searched for about a minute but did not find his ball. He therefore dropped another ball behind the hazard under Rule 26-1 and played it. He then found his original ball outside the hazard within five minutes of having begun to search for it. What is the ruling?

 
 
 

A. When the player dropped and played another ball behind the hazard, it became the ball in play and the original ball was lost.

If it was known or virtually certain that the original ball was in the water hazard, the player was entitled to invoke Rule 26-1. In the absence of knowledge or virtual certainty that the original ball was in the water hazard, the player was required to put another ball into play under Rule 27-1. In playing the ball dropped under Rule 26-1, the player played from a wrong place.

In match play, he incurred a penalty of loss of hole (Rule 20-7b).

In stroke play, he incurred the stroke-and-distance penalty prescribed by Rule 27-1 and an additional penalty of two strokes for a breach of that Rule (Rule 20-7c). If the breach was a serious one, he was subject to disqualification unless he corrected the error as provided in Rule 20-7c.


Edited by Itchy4Scratch, 08 December 2017 - 01:41 PM.


#4 iRON MiCK

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 01:40 PM

Ask DJ Craig.
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#5 pom

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 03:44 PM

If no one saw the ball enter the hazard & there are areas nearby where the ball could be lost outside the hazard then you should not declare the ball as in the hazard which would mean returning to where you played the shot from & playing another ball.


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#6 *Mouldy

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:12 PM

If no one saw the ball enter the hazard & there are areas nearby where the ball could be lost outside the hazard then you should not declare the ball as in the hazard which would mean returning to where you played the shot from & playing another ball.

please read the last sentence of the OP.

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#7 pom

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

please read the last sentence of the OP.

Comprehension begins by reading everything carefully.

The rest of the Question had already been answered & did not need any further comment.Seeing a splash is not always proof that the ball is actually in the hazard.


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#8 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:42 PM

The rest of the Question had already been answered & did not need any further comment.Seeing a splash is not always proof that the ball is actually in the hazard.


But it would be enough to establish virtual certainty, imo.
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#9 Weetbix

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:07 PM

But it would be enough to establish virtual certainty, imo.


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#10 AAA

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 12:34 AM

But it would be enough to establish virtual certainty, imo.

It depends on where the splash is in relation to the edge. Also I have seen the Dambuster effect a number of times.



#11 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 05:31 AM

It depends on where the splash is in relation to the edge. Also I have seen the Dambuster effect a number of times.


Do you think the distance of the shot contributes to the level of certainty one must have to claim they are virtually certain? Ie, if you see a splash from 250m away compared to a splash from 50m away?

#12 pom

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:35 AM

I do not think you can put parameters on it. Sometimes you see a splash & know that the ball is in the water. Other times you cannot be sure. Distance may be part of that but other factors will also be included.

 I have seen plenty of balls splash but also bounce out.

 I have also seen several where the decision was made that the ball was in the hazard & then found outside the hazard and I have seen players state that the ball was lost in the hazard when there was no chance that they could be virtually certain that the ball was in the hazard.

  I have always taken the line that if there was anywhere nearby that the ball could be lost and I did not see the ball enter the hazard. Then the ball is lost outside the hazard.


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#13 Patrick Reed

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 06:50 PM

If the marker said they saw the splash you could say you were virtually certain it was in the hazard and proceed accordingly, dropping where it crossed.
That ball would be the ball in play regardless if whether or not you found the original after you dropped, even if the original was found outside the hazard.



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#14 golfguy33

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 09:59 AM

Would playing a provisional ball straight away from the original spot help and add an extra possibility to the equation ?

In Mouldy's case it might have afforded him the chance to move past the hazard and see the original ball. You can always play a provisional ball several times until it is in-front of the original balls position and then if it's played, it then becomes the ball in play.

As previously quoted, once you drop a ball at the hazard ( thinking the original ball went into it, whether certain or not ) then that ball becomes the ball in play, with no recourse !

Jon...

 

ps: How you can hit a golf ball that far left on the 10th is the really hard part to fathom, Mouldman.   


Edited by golfguy33, 10 December 2017 - 10:03 AM.

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#15 OldBogey

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:52 PM

Would playing a provisional ball straight away from the original spot help and add an extra possibility to the equation ?

In Mouldy's case it might have afforded him the chance to move past the hazard and see the original ball. You can always play a provisional ball several times until it is in-front of the original balls position and then if it's played, it then becomes the ball in play.

As previously quoted, once you drop a ball at the hazard ( thinking the original ball went into it, whether certain or not ) then that ball becomes the ball in play, with no recourse !

Jon...

 

ps: How you can hit a golf ball that far left on the 10th is the really hard part to fathom, Mouldman.   

 

If you hit a provisional ball, you're admitting that you don't believe that your ball is in the hazard.  A bit hard to turn around later and be virtually certain that your ball is in the hazard.






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