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Matchplay Champs And Completing Matches "on Time"


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#31 rogolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:06 PM

In this context the 1 hole competition is something separate in the same way a putting comp would be. I feel if you’re going to allow a putting comp to decide the outcome I don’t see why a 1 hole match would be any different.

I disagree.  A one hole match is changing the condition of competition that says it's an 18 hole stipulated round.  A putting contest is different than the stipulated round - the stipulated round is not even started.



#32 AAA

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 06:08 PM

I've always thought though, that instead of tossing a coin, just a have a 1 hole match. Play the first and then the loser can just concede the match from there. Could be done in 15 minutes one afternoon which should be easier for the players to organise when they can't find 4-5 hours free on the same day.

Decision 2-4/21 is very clear on this.

 

However, in view of the intention of Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules), if players agree to play a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of the competition in order to decide which side will concede, both sides should be disqualified under Rule 1-3 for agreeing to exclude the operation of a condition of competition (Rule 33-1).


Edited by AAA, 05 December 2017 - 06:10 PM.


#33 Monty85

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:33 PM

I disagree.  A one hole match is changing the condition of competition that says it's an 18 hole stipulated round.  A putting contest is different than the stipulated round - the stipulated round is not even started.

 

I get what you mean, but why does a 1 hole comp count as starting a stipulated round. Both players are agreeing that they are not playing the stipulated round and are instead playing a totally different "1 hole comp" to decide the outcome. 

 

Where is the line drawn that decides when it counts as stipulated round? Would a 1 hole match at a different course count for example? What about a 1 hole comp starting on a random hole?


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#34 Monty85

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:35 PM

Decision 2-4/21 is very clear on this.

 

However, in view of the intention of Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules), if players agree to play a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of the competition in order to decide which side will concede, both sides should be disqualified under Rule 1-3 for agreeing to exclude the operation of a condition of competition (Rule 33-1).

 

I'm confused. So can a miscellaneous event be played between the players (ie: putting comp) to determine the outcome of a match? Or would that fall into this category and both players are disqualified?


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#35 rogolf

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:43 AM

I'm confused. So can a miscellaneous event be played between the players (ie: putting comp) to determine the outcome of a match? Or would that fall into this category and both players are disqualified?

The complete Decision is shown below.  The players can decide on a method to determine who will concede the match, but that method cannot involve "playing a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of competition." 

A putting contest to determine who will concede is not "playing a match."

 

2-4/21 Wrong Form of Play Used to Decide Which Side Concedes Match

Q.  In a foursome match, the players are unable to arrange a date to play their match within the prescribed time limit for the round. As a result, the players agree to play a singles match between one player from each side in order to decide which side would concede the match in accordance with Rule 2-4. Is this permissible?

A.  There is nothing in the Rules of Golf to prohibit players from agreeing to a method of determining which side will concede a match. However, in view of the intention of Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules), if players agree to play a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of the competition in order to decide which side will concede, both sides should be disqualified under Rule 1-3 for agreeing to exclude the operation of a condition of competition (Rule 33-1).

If the players agree to use some other method which does not involve playing a match to determine which side will concede, such as a putting competition, tossing a coin, etc., they are not considered to be in breach of Rule 1-3.



#36 pom

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:50 AM

The complete Decision is shown below.  The players can decide on a method to determine who will concede the match, but that method cannot involve "playing a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of competition." 

A putting contest to determine who will concede is not "playing a match."

 

2-4/21 Wrong Form of Play Used to Decide Which Side Concedes Match

Q.  In a foursome match, the players are unable to arrange a date to play their match within the prescribed time limit for the round. As a result, the players agree to play a singles match between one player from each side in order to decide which side would concede the match in accordance with Rule 2-4. Is this permissible?

A.  There is nothing in the Rules of Golf to prohibit players from agreeing to a method of determining which side will concede a match. However, in view of the intention of Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules), if players agree to play a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of the competition in order to decide which side will concede, both sides should be disqualified under Rule 1-3 for agreeing to exclude the operation of a condition of competition (Rule 33-1).

If the players agree to use some other method which does not involve playing a match to determine which side will concede, such as a putting competition, tossing a coin, etc., they are not considered to be in breach of Rule 1-3.

So in this case it is fine for one player to take part in the match if his partner is unable to make it but the two teams cannot agree to play the match with 1 player on each team?

I have not seen a Conditions of competition sheet for a 4 ball competition that states that teams must consist of 2 players.Although this is normally the case there are often times where one player cannot make a match or is going to arrive late. The rules allow one player to  start or complete the whole round without his partner.

And how is a putting competition considered to not be a match? Normally any competition between 2 teams in any sport is considered to be a match.


Edited by pom, 06 December 2017 - 09:07 AM.

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#37 pom

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:56 AM

A putting competition runs foul of the requirement of a course to have some fundamental parts. ie anything other than an area specially prepared for putting. eg no teeing ground from which to start each hole.

This rule IMO contradicts itself. By definition any competition between 2 teams is a match. Which is forbidden according to the wording of this rule, & then allowed by The final Paragraph.


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#38 rogolf

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:11 AM

So in this case it is fine for one player to take part in the match if his partner is unable to make it but the two teams cannot agree to play the match with 1 player on each team?

I have not seen a Conditions of competition sheet for a 4 ball competition that states that teams must consist of 2 players.Although this is normally the case there are often times where one player cannot make a match or is going to arrive late. The rules allow one player to  start or complete the whole round without his partner.

And how is a putting competition considered to not be a match? Normally any competition between 2 teams in any sport is considered to be a match.

 

How can foursomes be played with one person per team?  (see the definition)



#39 pom

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:26 AM

How can foursomes be played with one person per team?  (see the definition)

If one partner does not turn up the rules do not forbid the other partner from competing with the other pair.

 I understand the rule as posted & would enforce it as is but I posted  for discussion purposes, more so on the putting comp between 2 teams not being considered a match.


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#40 BumpunRun

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 11:50 AM

If one partner does not turn up the rules do not forbid the other partner from competing with the other pair.

 I understand the rule as posted & would enforce it as is but I posted  for discussion purposes, more so on the putting comp between 2 teams not being considered a match.

In a 4ball yeah, but how can one bloke play alternate shots? 


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#41 rogolf

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 12:12 PM

In a 4ball yeah, but how can one bloke play alternate shots? 

I'll be expecting a "doh, missed that".


Edited by rogolf, 06 December 2017 - 12:13 PM.


#42 pom

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:51 AM

I'll be expecting a "doh, missed that".

You got it. :o

 However I have not seen a club that plays foursomes matchplay which is what the thread was discussing.


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#43 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:57 AM

You got it. :o

 However I have not seen a club that plays foursomes matchplay which is what the thread was discussing.

Mine does. There's at least one board event that is decided by foursomes matchplay. 



#44 Monty85

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:55 AM

A putting contest to determine who will concede is not "playing a match."

 

So this is where it loses me.  I don't see how you can say a putting competition is not a match but a 1 hole competition is.

 

Why does using more than 1 club suddenly change things? 

 

Would a 1 hole comp, but you're only allowed to use 10 clubs be considered a match?


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#45 rogolf

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:05 PM

So this is where it loses me.  I don't see how you can say a putting competition is not a match but a 1 hole competition is.

 

Why does using more than 1 club suddenly change things? 

 

Would a 1 hole comp, but you're only allowed to use 10 clubs be considered a match?

Once you play from your first teeing ground on the course, you've begun the stipulated round for the match. (Decision 2/2)

A putting contest to determine who will concede the match is not the match - it doesn't involve the golf course or the stipulated round.






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