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Matchplay Champs And Completing Matches "on Time"


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#16 pom

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 10:12 AM

Initial post seems to suggest that coin toss was done in time but would be nice to have that confirmed.

Not sure about the Match Committees decision to DQ this member after results for this round and the following rounds have been posted. Did the losing player in round 3 state his intention to make a claim before shaking hands on the last hole & conceding defeat?.

  Did he know about the coin toss before conceding defeat although I am not sure this is relevant.


Edited by pom, 23 November 2017 - 10:14 AM.

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#17 rogolf

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 03:19 PM

Initial post seems to suggest that coin toss was done in time but would be nice to have that confirmed.

Not sure about the Match Committees decision to DQ this member after results for this round and the following rounds have been posted. Did the losing player in round 3 state his intention to make a claim before shaking hands on the last hole & conceding defeat?.

  Did he know about the coin toss before conceding defeat although I am not sure this is relevant.

Another point - was the result of the match (this includes the result of the coin toss) posted?  Once posted, the result of the match is final.



#18 Monty85

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 08:43 AM

 I think you should look at post #4 and the Decision quoted therein.  Tossing a coin is an acceptable outcome even without Committee approval.

 

This is good to know. My club is way to rigid with our matchplay draw in my opinion. This year half the matches didn't take place because players couldn't make the "official date" and have the draw pulled out before it even started moving players that actually didn't qualify in to those positions.

 

I've always advocated for a more flexible draw but the committee disagreed and stuck with their rigid system. The argument against the flexible method has always been "what do you do when the players can't make a decision on a date".

 

I've always thought though, that instead of tossing a coin, just a have a 1 hole match. Play the first and then the loser can just concede the match from there. Could be done in 15 minutes one afternoon which should be easier for the players to organise when they can't find 4-5 hours free on the same day.


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#19 rogolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 10:37 AM

This is good to know. My club is way to rigid with our matchplay draw in my opinion. This year half the matches didn't take place because players couldn't make the "official date" and have the draw pulled out before it even started moving players that actually didn't qualify in to those positions.

 

I've always advocated for a more flexible draw but the committee disagreed and stuck with their rigid system. The argument against the flexible method has always been "what do you do when the players can't make a decision on a date".

 

I've always thought though, that instead of tossing a coin, just a have a 1 hole match. Play the first and then the loser can just concede the match from there. Could be done in 15 minutes one afternoon which should be easier for the players to organise when they can't find 4-5 hours free on the same day.

Again, from post #4,

There is nothing in the Rules of Golf to prohibit players from agreeing to a method of determining which side will concede a match. However, in view of the intention of Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules), if players agree to play a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of the competition in order to decide which side will concede, both sides should be disqualified under Rule 1-3 for agreeing to exclude the operation of a condition of competition (Rule 33-1).

If the players agree to use some other method which does not involve playing a match to determine which side will concede, such as a putting competition, tossing a coin, etc., they are not considered to be in breach of Rule 1-3.

 

I would suggest that playing a one hole match is agreeing "to play a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of competition" and result in both players being dq'd.

Note however, that they could just have a putting contest to determine who was going to concede the match - easier than playing the first hole and returning to the clubhouse.


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#20 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 10:43 AM

This is good to know. My club is way to rigid with our matchplay draw in my opinion. This year half the matches didn't take place because players couldn't make the "official date" and have the draw pulled out before it even started moving players that actually didn't qualify in to those positions.

 

I've always advocated for a more flexible draw but the committee disagreed and stuck with their rigid system. The argument against the flexible method has always been "what do you do when the players can't make a decision on a date".

 

I've always thought though, that instead of tossing a coin, just a have a 1 hole match. Play the first and then the loser can just concede the match from there. Could be done in 15 minutes one afternoon which should be easier for the players to organise when they can't find 4-5 hours free on the same day.

I think important competitions need to be rigid. Things like club champs and matchplay champs where you've only got 8 or 16 people playing in the comp, should all be played on the same day. If you can't make it for one of those dates, you shouldn't enter the comp. 

If you've got things like handicap matchplay comps going on with large numbers of players then setting a time period that the match must be played within is a good idea. 

 


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#21 Monty85

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:55 PM

I would suggest that playing a one hole match is agreeing "to play a match other than in the form prescribed in the conditions of competition" and result in both players being dq'd.

Note however, that they could just have a putting contest to determine who was going to concede the match - easier than playing the first hole and returning to the clubhouse.

 

In this context the 1 hole competition is something separate in the same way a putting comp would be. I feel if you’re going to allow a putting comp to decide the outcome I don’t see why a 1 hole match would be any different.


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#22 Monty85

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:07 PM

I think important competitions need to be rigid. Things like club champs and matchplay champs where you've only got 8 or 16 people playing in the comp, should all be played on the same day. If you can't make it for one of those dates, you shouldn't enter the comp. 

If you've got things like handicap matchplay comps going on with large numbers of players then setting a time period that the match must be played within is a good idea.

 

I totally understand your point and I don’t completely disagree with it, but my opinion is that being flexible is the better option. We aren’t playing for sheep stations here, most of us are members of local clubs and the primary goal is to have some fun.

 

Not everyone can be available at the same time every week for 3 to 4 weeks so inevitably you end up with scenarios where the players that should qualify for a match play event don’t end up participating. That is usually fine, but when you end up with 5 or 6 out of your top players not playing because of other commitments and not because they didn’t want to play, is that really the better outcome?

 

What if a few things pop up for players and a player ends up in a semi-final without actually having played a match yet?

 

In a perfect world I would agree that it should all be played in the set times, but not everyone lives in that world and people have lives outside of golf that they want to live as well. Obviously some restrictions need to be put in place but what issues would you have with matches being played any time during the week with a set close off point? If a match has not been completed by that defined time than a decision will be made by the committee of which player proceeds (or neither proceeds).

 

Club Championships (for us anyway as its 4 stroke rounds) are different because you play against a field and not just one player so its not possible to do anything but set dates for them.


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#23 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:12 PM

I totally understand your point and I don’t completely disagree with it, but my opinion is that being flexible is the better option. We aren’t playing for sheep stations here, most of us are members of local clubs and the primary goal is to have some fun.

 

Not everyone can be available at the same time every week for 3 to 4 weeks so inevitably you end up with scenarios where the players that should qualify for a match play event don’t end up participating. That is usually fine, but when you end up with 5 or 6 out of your top players not playing because of other commitments and not because they didn’t want to play, is that really the better outcome?

 

What if a few things pop up for players and a player ends up in a semi-final without actually having played a match yet?

 

In a perfect world I would agree that it should all be played in the set times, but not everyone lives in that world and people have lives outside of golf that they want to live as well. Obviously some restrictions need to be put in place but what issues would you have with matches being played any time during the week with a set close off point? If a match has not been completed by that defined time than a decision will be made by the committee of which player proceeds (or neither proceeds).

 

Club Championships (for us anyway as its 4 stroke rounds) are different because you play against a field and not just one player so its not possible to do anything but set dates for them.

I get where you're coming from. That actually happened with the Ladies Club Champs at our club this year. They play it on Tuesday Ladies Day, so the two best golfers couldn't play in it. 

At our club, if you made the semis of the club champs and had to forfeit you would be looking at a suspension I believe.



 



#24 Monty85

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:24 PM

I get where you're coming from. That actually happened with the Ladies Club Champs at our club this year. They play it on Tuesday Ladies Day, so the two best golfers couldn't play in it. 

At our club, if you made the semis of the club champs and had to forfeit you would be looking at a suspension I believe.
 

 

Suspension does seem a bit ridiculous in my opinion. Life isn't as predictable as we would like it to be. Some things can and do come up.

 

From my perspective, I don't see any negatives in having a flexible draw as long as there are guidelines in place for what to do when an arrangement can't be made. 


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#25 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:34 PM

Suspension does seem a bit ridiculous in my opinion. Life isn't as predictable as we would like it to be. Some things can and do come up.

 

From my perspective, I don't see any negatives in having a flexible draw as long as there are guidelines in place for what to do when an arrangement can't be made. 

It's the only competition that this punishment would apply to I believe, and they probably wouldn't be as strict if it happened in the B or C grade events. 

Club Champs have a sense of occasion at our club, and each match is played on consecutive Saturdays. If they allowed matches to be played any times during that week, a player could arrange it to be played on a day where the pins are normally easier, or the markers are normally forward if they were playing a longer hitter so I think it maintains the integrity of the competition if it is always played on the same day. 


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#26 Monty85

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:46 PM

where the pins are normally easier, or the markers are normally forward if they were playing a longer hitter so I think it maintains the integrity of the competition if it is always played on the same day. 

 

Good point. I don't how prolific that issue would be in reality though as I like to give most people the benefit of the doubt and assume their intentions are honourable. 

 

End of the day though, if the members of your club are happy with that format then it is a non issue.


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#27 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:53 PM

Good point. I don't how prolific that issue would be in reality though as I like to give most people the benefit of the doubt and assume their intentions are honourable. 

 

End of the day though, if the members of your club are happy with that format then it is a non issue.

I'm sure the two former ladies club champs who couldn't play this year aren't happy with it, and I'd personally prefer we have 4 rounds of stroke for the club champs, with a separate matchplay champs, but I haven't really heard any complaints from the men about it not being flexible. 

 



#28 Goldy

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:07 PM

My club sets aside 3 weeks for the matchplay, in a similar fashion to the 4 weeks set aside for the club championships. If you enter the club championships, it is expected that you are doing so by committing to play the 4 weeks. The same applies to the matchplay - you need to qualify for it, and if you then elect to play it, you commit to playing the full 3 weeks should you get through all the rounds.

 

It's a whole lot easier when it's all played on the same day...getting individuals to organise their own matches by a certain date meets the clinical definition of herding cats.


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#29 Cats are Farked

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:09 PM

Cats are farked!
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#30 Goldy

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:10 PM

Yes.

 

They are.


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Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017 

C Grade LD Growling Frog 26/12/17, 15th hole, Callaway BB Alpha, HOF Patriot shaft, same old testicles of steel

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink





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