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Spectator Steals Ball, Pro Has To Deem Lost


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#1 Madam

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 10:06 AM

A few weeks ago a leaf hits a ball in motion and causes a 4 shot penalty. Leaf deemed outside agency?

 

http://forums.iseekg...4-shot-penalty/

 

Now a ball is stolen from player- player cops "lost ball" 

 

Spectator not an outside agency??

 

New Zealand golfer Ryan Fox has branded a spectator at the Italian Open an ‘idiot’ for taking off with his ball mid-round.

The 30-year-old, who graduated from the Challenge Tour last year, was playing the eighth hole at Golf Club Milano alongside partners Graeme Storm and Ashun Wu when the ‘fan’ decided he fancied taking a little present home.

Understandably, Fox was less than impressed as he had to head back to the tee and with a two-stroke penalty. He double-bogeyed the hole and signed for a one-under-par 70.

The penalty was the difference between being T36 and T68 after round one and, as things stand, making it to the weekend. 

http://www.bunkered....-ball-mid-round


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#2 rogolf

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:37 AM

If it was known or virtually certain (within five minutes of beginning to search) that the outside agency had made off with the ball, Rule 18-1 would have applied without penalty.  Players should be reminded of Rule 6-1.


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#3 Goldy

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 04:06 PM

Lukos is gonna be devastated.

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#4 Madam

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 04:26 PM

If it was known or virtually certain (within five minutes of beginning to search) that the outside agency had made off with the ball, Rule 18-1 would have applied without penalty. Players should be reminded of Rule 6-1.

im not sure the details of time or how they knew it was a spectator.

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#5 ColinCL

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 06:55 PM

A few weeks ago a leaf hits a ball in motion and causes a 4 shot penalty. Leaf deemed outside agency?

 

http://forums.iseekg...4-shot-penalty/

 

Now a ball is stolen from player- player cops "lost ball" 

 

Spectator not an outside agency??

 

New Zealand golfer Ryan Fox has branded a spectator at the Italian Open an ‘idiot’ for taking off with his ball mid-round.

The 30-year-old, who graduated from the Challenge Tour last year, was playing the eighth hole at Golf Club Milano alongside partners Graeme Storm and Ashun Wu when the ‘fan’ decided he fancied taking a little present home.

Understandably, Fox was less than impressed as he had to head back to the tee and with a two-stroke penalty. He double-bogeyed the hole and signed for a one-under-par 70.

The penalty was the difference between being T36 and T68 after round one and, as things stand, making it to the weekend. 

http://www.bunkered....-ball-mid-round

 

 

A one stroke penalty.


Edited by ColinCL, 14 October 2017 - 06:57 PM.


#6 Lukos87

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 07:26 PM

Lukos is gonna be devastated.

Possible the saddest story on the entire news website in my opinion.
https://i.stuff.co.n...-for-ball-theft

Same article so don't actually bother clicking that.

Edited by Lukos87, 14 October 2017 - 07:27 PM.


#7 AAA

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 08:24 PM

It would seem there is significant information that is missing.


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#8 Madam

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 09:09 PM

It would seem there is significant information that is missing.

agree I’m surprised the detail hasn’t been mentioned yet as well incorrect penalty in story which I missed! Apologies

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#9 iRON MiCK

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 12:08 PM

Hey definition of outside agency?

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#10 ColinCL

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 04:36 PM

Hey definition of outside agency?

It's in the Definitions at the beginning of your rule book.



#11 OldBogey

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 06:34 PM

A one stroke penalty.[/size]

... and distance = 3 off the tee.
He's 2 strokes worse off.

#12 ColinCL

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 08:45 PM

... and distance = 3 off the tee.
He's 2 strokes worse off.

 

Who would argue that he isn't 2 strokes worse off - maybe more if he makes a mess of his 3rd shot from the tee?

 

Nonetheless, the article is wrong:  he incurred one penalty stroke not two.


Edited by ColinCL, 15 October 2017 - 08:46 PM.

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#13 golfguy33

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 02:07 PM

The Cambodian open afew years ago had a real problem during the first round.

 

A dogleg left to right, short par 4 with a blind tee shot over a hill. On the other side of the hill was a family of 5, three adults and two 12 year old boys, all locals.

Several of the " non local pro's " had hit solid tee shots into the middle of the fairway with a 3 wood and when they got over the hill guess what, no ball to be seen.

When questioned the response was, no see ball and no speaky engrish !

So players had to go back to the tee and reload but left their caddie to make sure it didn't happen again.

Amazingly several of the local pro's that had sprayed their tee shots 20 to 30 metres left into the rough, found they had a great lie back in the fairway ?

The local PGA and the tournament directors had to have spotters on and over the hill for next 3 days.

 

Jon...  



#14 languid

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 04:04 PM

The Cambodian open afew years ago had a real problem during the first round.
 
A dogleg left to right, short par 4 with a blind tee shot over a hill. On the other side of the hill was a family of 5, three adults and two 12 year old boys, all locals.
Several of the " non local pro's " had hit solid tee shots into the middle of the fairway with a 3 wood and when they got over the hill guess what, no ball to be seen.
When questioned the response was, no see ball and no speaky engrish !
So players had to go back to the tee and reload but left their caddie to make sure it didn't happen again.
Amazingly several of the local pro's that had sprayed their tee shots 20 to 30 metres left into the rough, found they had a great lie back in the fairway ?
The local PGA and the tournament directors had to have spotters on and over the hill for next 3 days.
 
Jon...

We don’t know all the details, such as where were the Rules Official.
If I was one of the visiting professionals I would suggest to the Official present that there is very strong case for suspecting theft by an onlooker and tell him/her I intended to estimate the position to drop a ball without penalty and proceed to play the hole out.
If the Official didn’t like that I would ask for the Top Official to come to the place and discuss.
If the RO refused I would PROCEED under Rule 3-3 and play 2 balls.
IF there was no RO available I would use 3-3 immediately.
All this presumes the ball was almost certainly findable in the fairway “over the hill”.
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#15 ColinCL

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 02:35 AM

We don’t know all the details, such as where were the Rules Official.
If I was one of the visiting professionals I would suggest to the Official present that there is very strong case for suspecting theft by an onlooker and tell him/her I intended to estimate the position to drop a ball without penalty and proceed to play the hole out.
If the Official didn’t like that I would ask for the Top Official to come to the place and discuss.
If the RO refused I would PROCEED under Rule 3-3 and play 2 balls.
IF there was no RO available I would use 3-3 immediately.
All this presumes the ball was almost certainly findable in the fairway “over the hill”.

 

 

It is a matter of fact whether an outside agency makes off with your ball and for that, you require virtual certainty.  A "strong case" might well not reach that standard. 

 

If the referee's decision was that there wasn't virtual certainty and you just ignored him and carried on, you  wouldn't last long in the tournament.

 

A player does not have a right to a "second opinion" if the referee has the authority to make a final decision. If he doesn't have that authority then 3-3 can be invoked.

 

If the chief referee did get involved and also ruled that there wasn't virtual certainty and you ignored him, you wouldn't last long in the tournament.  

 

If you played a second ball without authority your score with the original ball would count plus a 2 stroke penalty for undue delay.


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