Jump to content


 

Photo

Leaf Moves Ball, 4 Shot Penalty


  • Please log in to reply
100 replies to this topic

#91 BumpunRun

BumpunRun

    Year of the Day

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11806 posts
  • LocationThirteen point twenty-four warning points

Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:29 PM

I am still not totally convinced in this particular instance that the ruling is correct. Don't get me wrong , I understand the rule & have no issue with it. If I was the rules official and Mr 1% were  to report to me what had happened,Without the aid of video I could only listen to the evidence & probably give the same decision as was made at the time.However If I was playing with someone who had this situation.( as in the video.) occur & I witnessed it I would still suggest that the leaf ( A very small leaf.) did not have sufficient mass to cause the ball to deflect & that the deflection had been caused by the gust of wind & the fact that the ball was travelling across a slope.

 The fact that the leaf struck the ball does not mean that it must have been the cause for the ball deflecting

the beauty of physics is that it doesn't need to be the leaf hitting the side of the ball to make it move, you are 1000% correct that a leaf would not have the mass or energy to bump a golf ball sideways.... but, just like how a spike mark is enough to deflect a ball off its line at the speed of those putts, if the leaf blew in and became wedged under the ball and the friction between the leaf and the green was enough that the leaf became a stationary as it hit the ball, as the ball now rolls over it the ball is not going to hold it's line. 


"But sometimes there are more important things in life than being pedantic about the rules of golf, or spelling and grammar on golf forums"

#92 Commish

Commish

    No Rhyme Nor Reason

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13270 posts
  • LocationSydney

Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:37 AM

the beauty of physics is that it doesn't need to be the leaf hitting the side of the ball to make it move, you are 1000% correct that a leaf would not have the mass or energy to bump a golf ball sideways.... but, just like how a spike mark is enough to deflect a ball off its line at the speed of those putts, if the leaf blew in and became wedged under the ball and the friction between the leaf and the green was enough that the leaf became a stationary as it hit the ball, as the ball now rolls over it the ball is not going to hold it's line. 

 

Just for fun....

 

Does that not mean that the leaf is not moving as an outside agency when it causes the deflection, therefore the shot stands and is not replaced and replayed??  The leaf does in fact stop under the ball, so does that mean the penalty issued is wrong..


Edited by Commish, 10 October 2017 - 08:41 AM.

The key to success is to learn to do something right, then do it right every time. Oh I wish.....
Three time winner of the treasured WBT.
2012 ISG National Champs 2nd Round winner @ Robina Woods
2013 ISG National Champs 1st Round winner @ 'The Dunes'
2014 ISG National Champs - Top 10 finish - Played like a girl - MUNT GOLFER

2015 ISG National Champs - Deservedly crowned the National  N.A.G.A.
2016 ISG National Champs 4BBB champion with Francie

 

Hole in One - Rosnay GC, 157 metre Par 3 - 27th February 2015

http://www.golflink....k_no=2030804409


#93 BumpunRun

BumpunRun

    Year of the Day

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11806 posts
  • LocationThirteen point twenty-four warning points

Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:00 AM

Just for fun....

 

Does that not mean that the leaf is not moving as an outside agency when it causes the deflection, therefore the shot stands and is not replaced and replayed??  The leaf does in fact stop under the ball, so does that mean the penalty issued is wrong..

very astute and well picked up, but I would still see it under the definition of an outside agency and not revert to a loose impediment yet as it would have continued on it's merry way floating along in the wind without the ball stopping it.

 

If JB was walking and bumbling all over your putting line fumbling for a marker and dropped a tee on your line, the tee doesn't need to be moving for it to be an outside agency. Granted that is different to a leaf that falls in two definition categories, but same same


  • Commish likes this
"But sometimes there are more important things in life than being pedantic about the rules of golf, or spelling and grammar on golf forums"

#94 Commish

Commish

    No Rhyme Nor Reason

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13270 posts
  • LocationSydney

Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:20 AM

very astute and well picked up, but I would still see it under the definition of an outside agency and not revert to a loose impediment yet as it would have continued on it's merry way floating along in the wind without the ball stopping it.

 

If JB was walking and bumbling all over your putting line fumbling for a marker and dropped a tee on your line, the tee doesn't need to be moving for it to be an outside agency. Granted that is different to a leaf that falls in two definition categories, but same same

 

So you have played with Barnesy before!!!   

 

Would a tee not fall under the definition of equipment?


Edited by Commish, 10 October 2017 - 09:29 AM.

The key to success is to learn to do something right, then do it right every time. Oh I wish.....
Three time winner of the treasured WBT.
2012 ISG National Champs 2nd Round winner @ Robina Woods
2013 ISG National Champs 1st Round winner @ 'The Dunes'
2014 ISG National Champs - Top 10 finish - Played like a girl - MUNT GOLFER

2015 ISG National Champs - Deservedly crowned the National  N.A.G.A.
2016 ISG National Champs 4BBB champion with Francie

 

Hole in One - Rosnay GC, 157 metre Par 3 - 27th February 2015

http://www.golflink....k_no=2030804409


#95 BumpunRun

BumpunRun

    Year of the Day

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11806 posts
  • LocationThirteen point twenty-four warning points

Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:54 AM

So you have played with Barnesy before!!!   

 

Would a tee not fall under the definition of equipment?

yep, same as his hat 


  • Commish likes this
"But sometimes there are more important things in life than being pedantic about the rules of golf, or spelling and grammar on golf forums"

#96 ColinCL

ColinCL

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 507 posts
  • LocationEdinburgh, Scotland

Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:24 PM

Just for fun....

 

Does that not mean that the leaf is not moving as an outside agency when it causes the deflection, therefore the shot stands and is not replaced and replayed??  The leaf does in fact stop under the ball, so does that mean the penalty issued is wrong..

No, it means that that the  leaf was moving at the time of the collision with the ball but was stopped as a result of it. 


  • pom likes this

#97 OldBogey

OldBogey

    Defining and analysing humour is a pastime of humourless people

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22512 posts
  • LocationRegional Victoria

Posted 10 October 2017 - 05:09 PM

that's it? that's the full extent of confusion?
 
you must play with some real dunderheads if you don't think they know the difference between being on the green or not.

  

Really?  Your ball is on the fringe.  Do you have difficulty in knowing it isn't on the putting green and that you can't mark, lift and clean it?


You guys are off on a tangent.
My point was that the rule applicable to an outside agency deflecting the ball is different.

#98 BumpunRun

BumpunRun

    Year of the Day

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11806 posts
  • LocationThirteen point twenty-four warning points

Posted 10 October 2017 - 05:19 PM


You guys are off on a tangent.
My point was that the rule applicable to an outside agency deflecting the ball is different.

Oh, well that clears it up then.




Definitely dunderheads.
  • Itchy4Scratch likes this
"But sometimes there are more important things in life than being pedantic about the rules of golf, or spelling and grammar on golf forums"

#99 ColinCL

ColinCL

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 507 posts
  • LocationEdinburgh, Scotland

Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:49 PM

  
You guys are off on a tangent.
My point was that the rule applicable to an outside agency deflecting the ball is different.

Different from what? Obviously not any of the other rules the pertain to the putting green but not elsewhere.



#100 pom

pom

    Old Grouch.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11653 posts
  • Locationtownsville

Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:30 PM

the beauty of physics is that it doesn't need to be the leaf hitting the side of the ball to make it move, you are 1000% correct that a leaf would not have the mass or energy to bump a golf ball sideways.... but, just like how a spike mark is enough to deflect a ball off its line at the speed of those putts, if the leaf blew in and became wedged under the ball and the friction between the leaf and the green was enough that the leaf became a stationary as it hit the ball, as the ball now rolls over it the ball is not going to hold it's line. 

The strange thing about this ruling is that if he had know the rule & accepted the fact that the leaf caused the deflection he would replayed the putt and probably done a better job of it the second time round.

 fun discussion though except when OB confuses the issue. :)


Edited by pom, 10 October 2017 - 07:30 PM.

Member of the Vision Test Pilot Project.
No VTPP11

#101 BumpunRun

BumpunRun

    Year of the Day

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11806 posts
  • LocationThirteen point twenty-four warning points

Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:51 PM

The strange thing about this ruling is that if he had know the rule & accepted the fact that the leaf caused the deflection he would replayed the putt and probably done a better job of it the second time round.
fun discussion though except when OB confuses the issue. :)

Absolutely and that was one of my points early. It's a rule that really plays to your advantage if you've missed a putt.
"But sometimes there are more important things in life than being pedantic about the rules of golf, or spelling and grammar on golf forums"




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users