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Leaf Moves Ball, 4 Shot Penalty


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#31 pom

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 04:50 PM

What about if the leaf is still attached to the tree and is blowing in the wind when the ball hits it and is deflected? 

It would not be an outside agency. Unless the tree fell over and hit the ball :rolleyes:


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#32 AAA

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:15 PM

What about if the leaf is still attached to the tree and is blowing in the wind when the ball hits it and is deflected? 

And the ball was played on the putting green?


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#33 AAA

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:18 PM

It would not be an outside agency. Unless the tree fell over and hit the ball :rolleyes:

The leaf is part of the tree which is an OA



#34 OldBogey

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:54 PM

What about if the leaf is still attached to the tree and is blowing in the wind when the ball hits it and is deflected?

 
I was going b to mention this:
 

And the ball was played on the putting green?

But AAA beat me to it.

#35 Commish

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 03:01 PM

Can someone tell me what species of worm would move at a pace that would allow it to be out of the players putting line at point of contact, but be able to get in the way of the ball once struck and deflect it prior to it reaching the hole.  

 

As for the leaf, I'm no Bump, but from my schooling years... if a body of any mass, no matter how large or minute, whilst in motion collides with another body of mass, both will have a reaction to that collision.  That movement will be commensurate with the combined mass, volume and speed of said body.

 

It's a rule I wasn't aware of, but know I am going to make sure I call penalties on all my playing partners in the future.  I am also going to increase my health care cover.


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#36 AAA

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 04:49 PM

Can someone tell me what species of worm would move at a pace that would allow it to be out of the players putting line at point of contact, but be able to get in the way of the ball once struck and deflect it prior to it reaching the hole.  

 

 

It could have been on the line all the time but not seen or noticed from 20+ yards away. It doesn't have to be moving but simply alive.



#37 pom

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 05:18 PM

Can someone tell me what species of worm would move at a pace that would allow it to be out of the players putting line at point of contact, but be able to get in the way of the ball once struck and deflect it prior to it reaching the hole.  

 

As for the leaf, I'm no Bump, but from my schooling years... if a body of any mass, no matter how large or minute, whilst in motion collides with another body of mass, both will have a reaction to that collision.  That movement will be commensurate with the combined mass, volume and speed of said body.

 

It's a rule I wasn't aware of, but know I am going to make sure I call penalties on all my playing partners in the future.  I am also going to increase my health care cover.

But take into account the mass of the ball , and in relation to that the mass of the leaf. take into account the velocity of both and then factor in the speed of the wind gust.For mine the leaf. ( and it was only a small one. ) would not have had enough mass and /or velocity to deflect the ball. The wind would be much more likely to have caused the deflection.And I would be happy to rule that way on the video evidence provided.

 And I am not going to join you for a round of golf if the wind is blowing... :o


Edited by pom, 28 September 2017 - 05:19 PM.

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#38 Commish

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:26 PM

But take into account the mass of the ball , and in relation to that the mass of the leaf. take into account the velocity of both and then factor in the speed of the wind gust.For mine the leaf. ( and it was only a small one. ) would not have had enough mass and /or velocity to deflect the ball. The wind would be much more likely to have caused the deflection.And I would be happy to rule that way on the video evidence provided.

 And I am not going to join you for a round of golf if the wind is blowing... :o

 

The wind may well have played a part also, but from what I have viewed, the ball commences to roll within a millisecond of the leaf starting to move from the left of the player.  Even with the wind gusting at the time, said ball stays on line until contact is made with the leaf.  From your suggestion, the wind must have only been directly behind the leaf in a tunnel type scenario to increase the velocity of same and nowhere else.  The deflection is at the exact moment the leaf strikes the ball.  Yep the wind may have assisted as well, but the ball was not moving off line until contact with the leaf.  The thing I don't get is that it seems that everyone else in the group were unaware of the rule as well, or were ar serholes for not telling him he could play the ball again without penalty.

 

Even without the leaf interaction, I reckon he would have missed the putt just outside the right edge anyway given the amount it rolled off before the hole.

 

Oh... and just so you know.... the wind is always blowing when I play golf.  Something to do with the beer from the night before.. :D


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#39 pegasus2357

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:54 PM

So if you putt and the wind deposits a leaf that is at rest by the time your ball hits it what happens then?

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#40 BumpunRun

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:57 PM

So if you putt and the wind deposits a leaf that is at rest by the time your ball hits it what happens then?

that is just the unluck of the draw and the result of the shot stands


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#41 BumpunRun

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:59 PM

 

 

Even without the leaf interaction, I reckon he would have missed the putt just outside the right edge anyway given the amount it rolled off before the hole.

 

 

and that is where he lost out by not knowing, he had a chance to putt again and make it knowing he hadn't given it enough break first time around


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#42 AAA

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:39 PM

I wonder if this thread would have run so long if the outside agency had been a stray dog or a fellow competitor not paying attention.


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#43 BumpunRun

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:59 PM

I wonder if this thread would have run so long if the outside agency had been a stray dog or a fellow competitor not paying attention.

Especially if the dog was running away after digging a hole in the bunker
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#44 AAA

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 05:06 PM

or if the dog then went to sleep in the hole


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#45 pegasus2357

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:17 PM

that is just the unluck of the draw and the result of the shot stands


Harsh...
So if a leaf blown by the wind hits my ball and causes a change of direction I must replay the putt but if a leaf lands on the putting line and causes the ball to change direction it's a case of tough titties.... no wonder people are confused with the rules
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