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Jim Hardy, Books On Release And Swing Plane


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#106 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:23 PM

Good posts Devon, I will have to come over and have a lesson on the RIT some time ;-)

With regards to OTT, I had that diagnosed as a pivot problem. So, currently working on changing my swing pattern to fix that which has blown my game apart as I work though it. Very depressing :-(

Cheers
Jack

#107 Weetbix

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 01:12 PM

The left arm lawnmower is new for me - interesting one

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Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016
Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands, 15/4/18 16th Carbrook
Goal: A round at par or better!
Brisbane Fairways 2015 Club Champion
Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island
Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands
Winner: 2017 Nationals day 5 round at Bonnie Doon
South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer
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#108 madness

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:22 PM

An over the top swing is mainly just poor alignment. Lee Trevino's feet would aim left of the fairway and Sam Snead's would aim right of the fairway. Instead of trying to have your feet parrallel with the target line you should work on having your swing path in line with the target line. People who are duck footed or lead leg dominant will tend to have an open stance and those who are pigeon toed or rear leg dominant will have a closed stance. Not many people are 100% neutral without any bias. It's very hard to change a persons biomechanics with golf practice because how you walk, stand, sit and sleep for 23 hours a day is going to far outweigh a 1 hour practice session. Even during that practice session you will be undoing the good work in between shots because of how you walk. It is possible with insoles in the shoes but you would have to wear them all the time to create real change and it could cause other problems if not managed properly such as damaging knees, hips and ankles. (I am not a podiatrist looking for work). Ken Venturi had a shoe made to encourage his right knee to push towards the target.


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#109 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:56 PM

An over the top swing is mainly just poor alignment. Lee Trevino's feet would aim left of the fairway and Sam Snead's would aim right of the fairway. Instead of trying to have your feet parrallel with the target line you should work on having your swing path in line with the target line. People who are duck footed or lead leg dominant will tend to have an open stance and those who are pigeon toed or rear leg dominant will have a closed stance. Not many people are 100% neutral without any bias. It's very hard to change a persons biomechanics with golf practice because how you walk, stand, sit and sleep for 23 hours a day is going to far outweigh a 1 hour practice session. Even during that practice session you will be undoing the good work in between shots because of how you walk. It is possible with insoles in the shoes but you would have to wear them all the time to create real change and it could cause other problems if not managed properly such as damaging knees, hips and ankles. (I am not a podiatrist looking for work). Ken Venturi had a shoe made to encourage his right knee to push towards the target.


Good comment Madness. I have always had a tendency to rest my weight on my right leg, its my default position. I often wonder if it is a leg issue or a hip issue. Whatever it is, I have to compensate for that in my swing so as to prevent a reverse pivot. It also makes it very difficult for me to use the hip slide in the downswing and it also effects my swing alignment, a problem I’m working on ATM.
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#110 hack2489

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    WTF, I can change this now?

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 03:43 AM

An over the top swing is mainly just poor alignment. Lee Trevino's feet would aim left of the fairway and Sam Snead's would aim right of the fairway. Instead of trying to have your feet parrallel with the target line you should work on having your swing path in line with the target line. People who are duck footed or lead leg dominant will tend to have an open stance and those who are pigeon toed or rear leg dominant will have a closed stance. Not many people are 100% neutral without any bias. It's very hard to change a persons biomechanics with golf practice because how you walk, stand, sit and sleep for 23 hours a day is going to far outweigh a 1 hour practice session. Even during that practice session you will be undoing the good work in between shots because of how you walk. It is possible with insoles in the shoes but you would have to wear them all the time to create real change and it could cause other problems if not managed properly such as damaging knees, hips and ankles. (I am not a podiatrist looking for work). Ken Venturi had a shoe made to encourage his right knee to push towards the target.


I'm not sure the OTT is poor alignment, but the "fix" by changing stance makes sense.

There's a pic of Hogan's ball position and stance with driver through irons and his was progressively more open.

I'm curious though that if the OTT is overcome by a closed stance and or an open stance, what affect it had on the efficiency, power, of the swing. The OTT move would still be there, it's just now more directed toward the target, but since it is not a swing in the correct sequence, there must be some efficiency, power, torque, etc. lost.

#111 Devongolfer

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:56 AM

Hack,
spot on. When I played heave and hold off, my stance was quite closed, precisely as you say to fix rhe alignment.

With my recent learning, I would say there is no release or throw advantage.

I would say the difference in disance is 10-15% compared to my current pattern.

But whereas I could not really heave and hold any faster, I reckon I can crank up my RIT a smidge more, maybe ending up with about 20% advantage.

That is for the driver, there is less difference for irons because, I think, OTT gets a nice descending blow / compression, whereas if you want to hit driver slightly up, OTT is not helping at all.
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#112 madness

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 08:00 PM

I'm not sure the OTT is poor alignment, but the "fix" by changing stance makes sense.

There's a pic of Hogan's ball position and stance with driver through irons and his was progressively more open.

I'm curious though that if the OTT is overcome by a closed stance and or an open stance, what affect it had on the efficiency, power, of the swing. The OTT move would still be there, it's just now more directed toward the target, but since it is not a swing in the correct sequence, there must be some efficiency, power, torque, etc. lost.

There's no question that there is a "preferred" golf swing that doesn't require a "fix" and produces maximum efficiency but it's assuming that the player has preferred biomechanics. I would say someone who is duck footed, knock kneed, has arms that are tricep biased and even hyperextended, has shoulders that sit back and a nice curve in the lower back.

Adam Scott and Justin Rose.

They find it very easy to turn their hips, they find it easy to push their belt buckle out towards the target on the follow through, they get great leverage through the extension of their arms and their arms fall in next to their hip on the way through the ball. 

I turn well and I get great leverage from my arms and hands but I am round shouldered and rear leg dominant which makes my swing steep. My swing speed with the driver is 110MPH but I'm losing about 20m because of my angle of attack. But if someone tries to correct my alignment and my posture to mimic the ideal golf swing I lose about 40m because my body can't generate power on that swing plane. Part of understanding the efiiciency of a golf swing is understanding the unique way the player moves. 

As for the Hogan set up, I'm wondering if he was allowing for an incorrect lie angle on his clubs. I remember talking to a state player many years ago before fitting was fashionable and he said he had to aim 5 feet right with his 7 iron. It turned out his 7 iron was 1 degree flatter than the rest of his irons! 


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#113 Devongolfer

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 02:20 AM

Won the club comp yesterday. Hardly the US Open, but there were 115 entrants, so not nothing. Handicap now 10.

On the first hole, the wind was left to right, so I decided to ......... just kidding!

A few days before, I had skipped my usual roll up game and spent the morning on the practice ground. The reason for the practice session was that I was not happy with my ball striking with my irons. I was trying different setup arrangements: posture, distance from ball, ball position, but not actually finding anything.

Having run out of ideas, I switched to trying my impression of Zach Johnson, holding off, keeping the left arm as the plane arm. That worked better, and so in the comp I used RIT for drives and hybrids, and "Zach" for irons and short game.

Thinking about this after the practice and my round yesterday, I reckon my RIT swing must be too shallow for irons, but fine for hybrids and driver.

Hardy's videos talk about the various off plane errors, so I have decided to go back to the faults and fixes advice from Hardy to see if I can work out how to RIT irons better.

There is an argument for sticking with Zach for irons, since iron play is about precision more than smacking it as far as you can, but I will invest some more time in RIT before making any decisions.
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#114 Weetbix

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:22 AM

Congrats on the win Devon - great work
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Handicap
Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016
Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands, 15/4/18 16th Carbrook
Goal: A round at par or better!
Brisbane Fairways 2015 Club Champion
Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island
Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands
Winner: 2017 Nationals day 5 round at Bonnie Doon
South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer
http://www.brisbanef...ssocialgolf.com - Treasurer




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