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Jim Hardy, Books On Release And Swing Plane


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#31 BROWNMAN

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 10:37 AM

Not fanning makes sense - when your throw you don't fan your forearm open, you move the whole arm back together

where does your right elbow fit into this picture,?are you pushing or pulling weetie,?cheers


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What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
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#32 Weetbix

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 10:41 AM

where does your right elbow fit into this picture,?are you pushing or pulling weetie,?cheers


No idea Browny - just referring to the idea of the throwing action - if I throw a ball down at the ground in front of me I lift the right arm back and up and the forearm doesn't rotate independently at all. So no fanning makes sense if RTI is using that sort of motion.
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#33 BROWNMAN

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:26 AM

yeah got that weet,there is only two ways any object can be moved,push or pull,and a million ways to do both actions just so long as we dont try to mix up both at once,unless maybe under expert tuition.....i must admit,i have my the ball move without making contact,not far,but i reckon it moved....called an airie lol


I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#34 BROWNMAN

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:28 AM

yeah got that weet,there is only two ways any object can be moved,push or pull,and a million ways to do both actions just so long as we dont try to mix up both at once,unless maybe under expert tuition.....i must admit,i have my the ball move without making contact,not far,but i reckon it moved....called an airie lol

i have HAD my ball move....sorry typo in above post


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I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#35 Weetbix

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:33 AM

So three ways to move something! :D
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Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016
Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands, 15/4/18 16th Carbrook
Goal: A round at par or better!
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#36 hack2489

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 01:29 PM

OPs excitement had me off looking.

LOTS if discussion over on WRX.

Got interested.

Went to buy the kindle version but amazon have pulled it from sale.

Hmmm.

#37 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 10:57 AM

No idea Browny - just referring to the idea of the throwing action - if I throw a ball down at the ground in front of me I lift the right arm back and up and the forearm doesn't rotate independently at all. So no fanning makes sense if RTI is using that sort of motion.

I think you are on the right track there Weetie, the throw is mostly done by the Flexion of the right wrist. After that, the right forearm simply adds to radial acceleration as a PA#1, right arm straightening action. If you tried to rotate the right forearm, you would be closing the club face, not the desired result for a RIT release.



#38 BROWNMAN

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 01:53 PM

I think you are on the right track there Weetie, the throw is mostly done by the Flexion of the right wrist. After that, the right forearm simply adds to radial acceleration as a PA#1, right arm straightening action. If you tried to rotate the right forearm, you would be closing the club face, not the desired result for a RIT release.

switting ?


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What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#39 Toolish

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 03:28 PM

The club going out and down while the hands go left is something I 'discovered' myself in the last year, has changed my game.  Hard to swing too far left as long as you are not coming over the top!

 

When I visted Darty when he was just well enough for our very last ever range session together. He had me at impact and just post impact where my hands working that far left it felt like they were less than a hand width from my left hip. He said your still steering son. Can't be. Got it on video and sure enough steering the hands left in a straight line not working in circles. By the end of the session he had me swinging and hitting in circles, the body and hands working in cirlces together left.


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#40 Zenstb

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 08:09 PM

The club going out and down while the hands go left is something I 'discovered' myself in the last year, has changed my game.  Hard to swing too far left as long as you are not coming over the top!

Hi Everyone,

We have created a simple video using our Gears Golf #D technology at our new 3d Sports lab. The video is a simple explanationto help golfers understand the concepts of how the physics of the golf club works. By understanding these basic concepts can help golfers develop their own concepts how to use their body and hands in harmony with the physics of the golf club to play better golf.The video also explains what can cause the OTT move. .I deleted the last post and upload the full version of the video. I hope you enjoy the video. If you have any question please ask and only to happy to help


Edited by Zenstb, 08 February 2018 - 08:12 PM.

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Coordination is the key to movement

#41 Toolish

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 08:51 AM

Great post mate.  Have you looked into the stuff Brian Manzella is doing, sounds like you are speaking the same language!

 

I would love to learn more about this stuff, being an engineer by trade the numbers intrigue me.  Is there a book or something that is golf physics for dummies?  I have been down the path of The Golfing Machine, to me this is the modern version of that thinking.



#42 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 10:31 AM

Hi Scott,

Thanks for that video, it provides some excellent material for discussion. I'm not sure that I follow your logic about the reason for this guy swinging outside in. If I may, here are some of my observations.

 

At the top of the first swing, the club shaft is pointing way inside the plane line. Also, the right forearm is significantly out of alignment with spine axis. That is not necessarily a problem but it means that the golfer has to make a rapid compensation to correct those alignment errors, i.e. lay the club off.

 

Following on from that, at about 4:25 onwards of your video, you can see how the right forearm is coming in way to high, outside the plane line. Consequently, the club is being driven by the right forearm alignment, outside the plane line. Hence the outside in swing result.

 

In the second example, you can see how these alignments are all corrected and is probably the real reason why the golfer is swinging much better.

 

Just my observation Scott, for what they are worth. Interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again.

Jack


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#43 Toolish

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 05:29 PM

 

 

At the top of the first swing, the club shaft is pointing way inside the plane line. Also, the right forearm is significantly out of alignment with spine axis. 

 

Can you expand on this mate?



#44 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:35 PM

Can you expand on this mate?

Toolish,

I assume that you know what a plane line is but let me know if you want me to explain that. I am also assuming that the golfer is using a vertical grip. That is, the hands, when fingers are uncurled from the club, are positioned straight up and down in the vertical plane.

 

When the right forearm is aligned at the top of the backswing, such that it is in a plane parallel to the axis of the spine, then  a fully bent (Extension) right wrist will enable the club shaft to be comfortably held on the swing plane. If you take up that position, you will find that the right hand palm supports the underside of the club shaft and with little adjustment, the club shaft can be held such that it points at the plane line. This is one of the happy coincidences that Homer Kelley refers to in his book on TGM as "the magic of the right forearm". He also refers to the angle between the right hand and the right forearm, caused by full extension, as the "flying right hand wedge". In Scott's video, he shows the left hand flying wedge as that coloured in segment. It would be interesting if he could do the same for the right hand wedge.

 

If that full extension of the right wrist is held in the down swing through to impact, then the right fore arm will be in a position to trace the plane line through impact.

 

In Scott's video, the first example shows the right forearm is out of alignment with the spine and that is making it difficult for the golfer to maintain the shaft on plane.

 

Hope that helps. Let me know if its still not clear.

 

Cheers

Jack



#45 Zenstb

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 10:35 AM

Great post mate.  Have you looked into the stuff Brian Manzella is doing, sounds like you are speaking the same language!

 

I would love to learn more about this stuff, being an engineer by trade the numbers intrigue me.  Is there a book or something that is golf physics for dummies?  I have been down the path of The Golfing Machine, to me this is the modern version of that thinking.

The best guy to follow is Dr Sasho McKenzie he's the guy who did all the research or founder so to speak, he created club data software for measuring the forces of the golf club . This where Brian got his original information from. Jacobs3D is the exact same system as my 3D Gears Golf although to measure the forces of the club they use algorythms and kinetic calculations. Personally I don't pay attention to Brian the alpha torque he talks about their system was only measuring handle couple only. Which is totally different to Alpha torque of the shaft and hands. Brian is under scrunity at the moment by golf biomechanists and other pros his information isn't correct and the metrics aren't right. 

If you want the correct information I'd look up Dr Sasho Mckenzie he's a PHD in biomechanics and guru in Club data physics he educates all the PGA members around the world on club physics. also Dr Young-Hoo Kwon also PHD and head chairman of Sports Biomechanics Association he does all the peer review for golf biomechanics. He also travels the world educating PGA members on golf biomechanics theory. He runs level 1 and 2 courses. Highly detailed and scientific. 


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