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Jim Hardy, Books On Release And Swing Plane


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#16 Devongolfer

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 05:25 PM

Reading some people's experiences with Hardy and his teachers there seems to be an emphases on swinging hard left - particularly for the one plane RIT swing. To the point of talking about feeling like transition is aiming your hands at your right pocket. Is that a feel that applies in your add Devon?


Hi, Weetbix,
I'm not sure about your description. Probably best if I don't try to describe Hardy in my own words, I'll just add in my own misconceptions and feels. The Kindle version of the release book costs less than 3 pro v1 s, it really is not expensive for folks to get everything direct from Hardy rather than via me.

#17 Devongolfer

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:23 PM

Zen,

thanks for the Mayo video. The laying down idea is mentioned by quite a few teachers, I'm thinking of Leadbetter's A swing or Pete Croker's "rotate under, not over" or something like that. From my own experience, I agree. In my own way of thinking, if the club head ever gets above plane, you are stuffed. And there seem to be a lot of ways to do it, I have tried most of them and they all lead to miserable shots.

The equivalent in Hardy for his one plane / RIT is the advice to drop the club as you make the transition. He is assuming that you have executed the one plane backswing correctly, so have the shaft on the right plane, but have just lifted it up and parallel to the plane you want on the downswing. Mayo makes the reasonable assumption that the viewer of the video not only has the club too high, they also have it too steep, so you need to drop and shallow.

Either way, I agree. The backswing tends to get the hands above plane and the shaft too steep. You have to undo one or both in the transition, otherwise, as I know very well, you are stuffed.

#18 Zenstb

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:12 PM

Devon,
Great topic of discussion and totally agree with you.
I may have to do a video would maybe be the best way to explaining layed off.
An misconception I see is laying off is totally different to dropping the club down.I feel personally feel in general the industry misunderstand the physics and get the drop and laying off mixed up.
When laying off correctly you maintain extensor action or use frozen right arm or maintain width with pressure against the shaft pressure point 3. You work your arms around the spine maintaining extension action or width or pressure against the shafts. Then once you get to the right hip pull the handle left using either the left hand (presure point2 or use left shoulder P1 or accumulator 4) to pull the handle left which cause the club head to release inside to out and square down the line. This speed direction the club travelling. The path is inside, sqaure , inside. Important we dont confuse the two. Key is the speed direction. Very important for collision dynamics. The speed direction of the club head dictates ball flight.(Club face). The ball starts where face is pointing is because majority of speed is travelling the direction the face is pointing. This aligns with the com of the club and the physics.

If you drop the club down the club head or COM follows the direction the handle is being pulled. The club head tries to line up inline with the handle. What happens is you then get stuck or club gets underneath. You can't release the club. You hit pushes, hooks, fat shots. Lose club head speed.
Hope this makes sense. Maybe easier if I do a quick video and it will all make a ton of sense.
Coordination is the key to movement

#19 Zenstb

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 07:27 PM

Hi Devon,
Maybe this video is helpful with club physics and help you with your golf.

  • BROWNMAN, Jack_Golfer, Weetbix and 2 others like this
Coordination is the key to movement

#20 Devongolfer

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:43 PM

Zen,
great video, many thanks for taking the time to put that together. I can see there is more to laying off than I had realised.

thanks again

#21 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:42 AM

Zen,
Thanks for doing the video, you have raised a very interesting discussion point. Its great to find a thread on ISG that has something of interest to golfers who want to understand their swing and how to improve it.

After saying all that, I am sorry to have to say that I am none the wiser of what laying off actually is. I got from your video that laying off involves pointing the shaft at the plane line but if you have loaded up correctly on the backswing, it already is. What am I missing here?

The other thing that I would mention is that there is this tendency in golf to talk about the physics of golf, without using the correct scientific terms. There is an essential force that is involved in the release of the golf club. Its called centripetal force(not to be confused with centrifugal force). Its what makes things go around, like the moon around the earth. Its the same force that makes the club go around the pivot. It gets me that this term is never used in golf but is the most important force of all.

When you release accumulator #3, it is centripetal force that does it. Its achieved by simply pulling up on the club which provides the inward force to make the club go around. If you understand that, you begin to understand how to release the third accumulator. One of the great pieces of advice I remember from Dart was to "stomp on a can through impact". That was his way of describing pulling inward on the club.

Zen, I am not knocking your video, I appreciate you doing it very much. If you have the patience, could you please try and explain it again. From my point of view, if I maintain a single straight plane line, why would I want to change that? Is laying of just adjusting the plane to a lower level? If so, why not swing at that level in the first place?

I think I am missing an essential point here, I will wait for your answer before I dig myself a bigger hole :-)
Cheers

Edited by Jack_Golfer, 05 September 2017 - 09:45 AM.





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