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Hitting Wrong Ball In A Hazard


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#16 iRON MiCK

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:30 PM

Plugged lie in a hazard? Do you get relief? e.g. unlug and place as near to the position of the ball plugging as possible. I saw someone get relief from a plugged lie in a bunker, so does this apply to all hazards?


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#17 pom

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 01:41 PM

Plugged lie in a hazard? Do you get relief? e.g. unlug and place as near to the position of the ball plugging as possible. I saw someone get relief from a plugged lie in a bunker, so does this apply to all hazards?

Are you sure that he got free relief? Did he drop the ball back in the bunker? The reason I ask is that he may have taken an unplayable lie in the bunker which is OK but there is a penalty involved.

There is no free relief from a plugged lie in a Hazard. Relief as per water hazard rule.

There could be exceptions to this under a local rule.


Edited by pom, 25 June 2017 - 01:43 PM.

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#18 golfguy33

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 03:27 PM

Are you sure that he got free relief? Did he drop the ball back in the bunker? The reason I ask is that he may have taken an unplayable lie in the bunker which is OK but there is a penalty involved.

There is no free relief from a plugged lie in a Hazard. Relief as per water hazard rule.

There could be exceptions to this under a local rule.

For instance you'd get relief with a plugged lie in the bunkers if playing at Eastern GC, current local rule but I'm not exactly sure, when or what the circumstances are ?

Only green-side bunkers when in the faces and under the lips or fairway traps too ?

 

Jon... 



#19 RobNewy

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 03:43 PM

For instance you'd get relief with a plugged lie in the bunkers if playing at Eastern GC, current local rule but I'm not exactly sure, when or what the circumstances are ?
Only green-side bunkers when in the faces and under the lips or fairway traps too ?
 
Jon...


That local role at Eastern has been removed for about 4-5 months now Jon

#20 AAA

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 05:21 PM

And it was 'illegal' anyway.


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#21 RobNewy

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 06:21 PM

And it was 'illegal' anyway.


Its a local rule.

How is it illegal?

#22 ColinCL

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 06:53 PM

Its a local rule.

How is it illegal?

Because  the rule for  an embedded ball [R25-2] allows relief only from closely mown areas through the green i.e. it excludes bunkers and water hazards.  While there is an approved local rule which allows you to extend relief to other areas through the green  than just closely mown ones, it still excludes bunkers and water hazards. 

 

Local Rules have to be approved, either explicitly in the Rules or by specific approval of a requested one.  Extending relief from an embedded ball to hazards is not explicitly approved and would not be approved as far as I know.


Edited by ColinCL, 25 June 2017 - 06:57 PM.


#23 RobNewy

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 07:56 PM

Because  the rule for  an embedded ball [R25-2] allows relief only from closely mown areas through the green i.e. it excludes bunkers and water hazards.  While there is an approved local rule which allows you to extend relief to other areas through the green  than just closely mown ones, it still excludes bunkers and water hazards. 
 
Local Rules have to be approved, either explicitly in the Rules or by specific approval of a requested one.  Extending relief from an embedded ball to hazards is not explicitly approved and would not be approved as far as I know.


True? I never knew that.

The reason for the local rule was because any ball that thought about landing in a bunker plugged, most of the time until there was only 1/3 of the ball visible.
Being a brand new course, there was just too much same in them.

Could they have applied for an extenuating circumstances type of thing?

#24 ColinCL

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 09:52 PM

True? I never knew that.

The reason for the local rule was because any ball that thought about landing in a bunker plugged, most of the time until there was only 1/3 of the ball visible.
Being a brand new course, there was just too much same in them.

Could they have applied for an extenuating circumstances type of thing?

 

Rule 33-8 is about the Committee's responsibility for local rules.  As you see, a local rule must either be in accordance with the policies laid out in Appendix 1 of the Rules  or approved by the R&A or USGA.

 

a. Policy 

The Committee may establish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions if they are consistent with the policy set forth in Appendix I

 

b. Waiving or Modifying a Rule 

A Rule of Golf must not be waived by a Local Rule. However, if a Committee considers that local abnormal conditions interfere with the proper playing of the game to the extent that it is necessary to make a Local Rule that modifies the Rules of Golf, the Local Rule must be authorized by the [R&A/USGA.]

 

There is a considerable number of Decisions based on 33-8 which show you local rules that are approved or disapproved.
http://www.usga.org/...sion-33,d33-8-1


Edited by ColinCL, 25 June 2017 - 09:54 PM.

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#25 AAA

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 07:40 AM

True? I never knew that.

The reason for the local rule was because any ball that thought about landing in a bunker plugged, most of the time until there was only 1/3 of the ball visible.
Being a brand new course, there was just too much same in them.

Could they have applied for an extenuating circumstances type of thing?

They could have applied but I very much doubt they would have received approval. It is not an uncommon problem.



#26 pom

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:06 AM

There seems to be little regard for this rule by clubs throughout the country. Whether it is a case of not knowing the rules regarding local rules or just choosing to ignore them. Many clubs make up local rules to suit themselves disregarding the rules. Not sure how this could be fixed & whether anyone would have the will to try.. I actually know of a Resort course that allows preferred lies in bunkers, including allowing the lie to be improved ( built )


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#27 pom

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:18 AM

And it was 'illegal' anyway.

The only reason I added the comment about local rules is because you can get situations like we have at the moment where work is being done on a fairway & adjacent water hazard & building a new bunker. The entire area at the moment is declared GUR with drop zones in place.


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#28 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:31 AM

I don't see why a club would care about approval from the ruling bodies. It doesn't effect them and everyone playing at their course plays by the same rules.

What sort of repercussion would a club face for applying an "illegal" local rule anyway?
 


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#29 OldBogey

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:51 AM

The course is rated by applying very specific parameters to each hole to determine the ACR.  Making the course easier by applying a LR could affect the ACR by a stroke or more.  e.g. preferred lies - one club length, through the green.  That doesn't affect locals playing locally, but it could reduce their handicaps applicable to playing elsewhere.

 

You might ask; "Who cares?"  It's their problem anyway.

 

The governing league/union/association can order them to abandon that LR, but that's up to the committee to do so. If they continued to be recalcitrant, they could be removed from said league/etc but I can't see that ever happening.  If it did, the club would just go to VCAT and get re-instated.



#30 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:56 AM

That happens with almost any local rule, not just this specific illegal one about bunkers

Staked Trees, Preferred Lies, Bunkers GUR all make the course easier but are allowed. 

Could you make a local rule that says bunker faces are compulsory GUR? Or can you only do that for entire bunkers? 






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