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Green Card For Golfers - Slow Play


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#31 2Putts

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 07:52 PM

An arbitrary "pace of play" is rubbish; it just gives slow-coaches an excuse for dropping behind the group in front.

 

The list of excuses is long a annoying:

 

 

"But we lost a ball" ..... tough titties ... catch up.

 

But they're in carts .... big deal .... catch up.

 

"But they're all better than us" ..... yep, and they're better looking ... catch TF up.

 

The only acceptable attitude is "keep up with the group in front".


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#32 Francie

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 07:57 PM

It depends, the rule is keep up with the group in front, so if both groups are slow then you can punish both.

I had this situation last Saturday. We were nearly a whole hole behind and I was aware of it, but we were well ahead of the group behind. The slow bloke in my group actually said "geez we're keeping good pace" and I told him we were actually behind and needed to play faster. He had no idea what was going on.

 

I'm glad you weren't talking about Sunday.   ;)

 

I'm not sure how long most groups were on Sunday but some of that rough was impossible.    It reminded me of the time we played an OOM at Settlers Run...if the ball went 2 inches off the fairway you re-loaded.   I think it was a record number of lost balls and such a long day IM went home early.    :D  :lol:  


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#33 MaxxOn

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:03 PM

I don't give a fark about anyone.

I pay my money to play so I'll play at whatever pace suits me.

I'm also an A Grader, B and C Graders need to stop chopping it and get the fark out of my way.

A Graders always have the right of way.

#34 Happy_Dude

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:28 PM

When I moved from juniors comp to the members comp in the mid-80s, you had to play a couple of 9 hole rounds with one of the senior members to demonstrate that you understood the etiquette, when it was your turn to play, when you should continue to putt or mark, tend the flag etc.  There was instruction (not quite a test though) on rules and scoring systems too.

 

If everyone knows that, then things move along nicely.  It most certainly is up to the club to ensure that all members are well-versed.

 

I sh1ts me to tears when gits mark a putt when they're not on anyone's line, low markers more often than not, or when I'm ready to putt and whoever should be tending the flag, isn't.

 

In the 10 months since I rejoined club golf after a 20yr absence, I'm yet to play with anyone that I would describe as slow or even excessively deliberate.  But I've sure played with plenty who just don't get the basics right.


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#35 BarnEsy05

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:00 PM

An arbitrary "pace of play" is rubbish; it just gives slow-coaches an excuse for dropping behind the group in front.

 

The list of excuses is long a annoying:

 

 

"But we lost a ball" ..... tough titties ... catch up.

 

But they're in carts .... big deal .... catch up.

 

"But they're all better than us" ..... yep, and they're better looking ... catch TF up.

 

The only acceptable attitude is "keep up with the group in front".

Have to disagree with the beard here...looks left looks right waiting for lightning strike...

 

After being involved in this area for some time now, especially over the last couple of months I have seen that having achievable pace of play guidelines is a must for all clubs that are serious about slow play. Sure, in a perfect world keeping up with the group ahead would be ideal, but in saying that it is quite easy to do when the course is overloaded and that's the problem, clubs wanting maximum participation at the cost of member frustration due to overcrowding the course. A great analogy is, say you were driving to the airport at 6am, you'll have a decent run and get there fairly quick. Take that same trip at 10am and see how you go. It's the same on the golf course.

 

It's no good waiting on every tee, that's exactly what happens when the course is full, no one can move any faster there is nowhere to go. With golf there are too many variables and I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that if the first group of the day gets around in say 4hrs that every group following should be able to do the same...it just wont happen. Even if a group that was lagging and they start to move faster to catch up, the damage has already been done as, like in traffic, if someone brakes up the road, a few minutes later that braking spot is many meters back down the road. They all can't move together.

 

The secret is to have reasonable starting intervals between groups and then having them maintain that gap/pace. By having decent intervals, each group is playing into space rather than waiting. 


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#36 OldBogey

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:22 PM

You would know plenty about that


Of course!
I'm not a 'no ideas' man. But your post suggests that you might be?

#37 hack2489

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 04:41 AM

Maybe a simple idea, maybe not, but ...

 

Every course has a different layout, so time to play varies, so it makes it hard for people to know what the 'pace' should be - keeping up with the griup in front is not the best solution, IMHO. With an increase in "casual" golfers and more "social golf clubs" and less of the traditional 'club members' - there are more and more golfers playing different course and so more and more who will not know what the 'pace' for a course should be ...

 

So, each course needs a timing system. Some member courses which require a cart, have it in the cart, so if you are playing 'off pace', either too slow or too fast, you get a message on the GPS screen. Take this and apply it to all course, so each course has a guide on with the scorecard, that states the 'pace' time for each hole, and an accumulated time for at the end of each hole, so, you look at the card, see you've finished the 5th hole, course card says 'time to here - 1hr 5 mins', so you group can work off their tee time, and see if they are 'on pace'.

 

If you're waiting at the 14th tee, thinking it's slow, you look at the card, it is says, for example "time to here - 3 hour 25mins' at the end of the 13th hole, and you work back from you're tee time, and oh, "OK, we should be here at 12.25pm, and it's only 12.15pm, so, we're doing OK, we can slow up a bit to avoid these waiting times on the next few tees"

 

Simple?


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#38 hack2489

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 04:48 AM

Oh, and ... for competition rounds, the tee slots should be graded.

 

So, for say the first hour, all tee slots closer together and a 'pace of play' set at say 4 hours for 18 holes.

 

Next hour, space them out a bit, and set pace of play at say 4 hours 15 ...

 

Next hour, keep spacing as for second hour, but allow say pace of play at 4 hours 30 ...

 

Then, it's simple enough at the 10th to have a time keeper to watch the groups as they make the turn, if not 'on pace', they get a penalty stroke each. And same again at the end of the round - if you tee'd off at 8 am, and took 5 hours, you'll get a penalty for slow play.

 

Golfers will then start to realise they need to get moving or get a penalty.

 

This system then allows the quick players, family man with commitments etc. to get in a round early at a better pace, and allows others to pace themselves without slowing up the whole field by taking the first tee slots each comp ...

 

Simple?


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#39 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:00 AM

Of course!
I'm not a 'no ideas' man. But your post suggests that you might be?


Your many thousands of posts suggest you have no idea about pretty much everything.
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#40 Goldy

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 08:11 AM

Oh, and ... for competition rounds, the tee slots should be graded.

 

So, for say the first hour, all tee slots closer together and a 'pace of play' set at say 4 hours for 18 holes.

 

Next hour, space them out a bit, and set pace of play at say 4 hours 15 ...

 

Next hour, keep spacing as for second hour, but allow say pace of play at 4 hours 30 ...

 

Then, it's simple enough at the 10th to have a time keeper to watch the groups as they make the turn, if not 'on pace', they get a penalty stroke each. And same again at the end of the round - if you tee'd off at 8 am, and took 5 hours, you'll get a penalty for slow play.

 

Golfers will then start to realise they need to get moving or get a penalty.

 

This system then allows the quick players, family man with commitments etc. to get in a round early at a better pace, and allows others to pace themselves without slowing up the whole field by taking the first tee slots each comp ...

 

Simple?

 

Graded is an interesting concept.

 

If you mean by those who play quickly...agree.

 

But not all A graders are quick. And not all C graders are slow.


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#41 Monty85

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 08:39 AM

Every golf course presents unique challenges therefore it cannot be assumed that say 4hrs 20 is the norm. Some are faster, some slower but if it takes 4hrs45+ at any course then management need to look hard at themselves and the practices they employ.

 

Well said Barnesy. I've always felt that a lot of golfers over react when it comes to slow play. Sure at times some people can be absolutely clueless but end of the day, you're out on the golf course "trying" to have a good time. 

 

5 hour rounds aren't that uncommon at my home course. While those days do feel slow, they aren't horrifically slow. In a normal Saturday comp i've had rounds rounds where I haven't had to wait once and they still took 4 1/2 hours to complete. It's just the nature of the course (as you said) and conditions.

 

That being said, i've also finished a round in 3 hours there before in a group of 4. So it can be done. But really, as long as you don't have 5 minute waits on every shot who cares how long it takes.


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#42 Monty85

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 08:51 AM

Makes a lot of sense. I like to reach my shot when the group in front is still putting. Gives you time to analyse your shot and get ready to play. Also if you are in that position if you group loses a ball you have time to search without falling behind too much.

 

This.

 

I've said it before but most players that are culprits of slow play are hopeless at getting a move on "between shots".

 

Frequently i'm the last to tee off in a group but still easily the first one to walk off the tee.  What on earth the other guys are doing I don't know.

 

The same applies on the fairway (or in the trees for me). I've had to walk an extra 100m to my ball. Why am i reaching it 30 seconds before you've gotten to yours?

 

And it took me a while but i've finally got my regular Saturday group to stop carrying around the flagstick like it's sacred. Just leave it on the ground FFS.


Edited by Monty85, 09 June 2017 - 08:54 AM.

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#43 BarnEsy05

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 08:54 AM

Oh, and ... for competition rounds, the tee slots should be graded.

 

So, for say the first hour, all tee slots closer together and a 'pace of play' set at say 4 hours for 18 holes.

 

Next hour, space them out a bit, and set pace of play at say 4 hours 15 ...

 

Next hour, keep spacing as for second hour, but allow say pace of play at 4 hours 30 ...

 

Then, it's simple enough at the 10th to have a time keeper to watch the groups as they make the turn, if not 'on pace', they get a penalty stroke each. And same again at the end of the round - if you tee'd off at 8 am, and took 5 hours, you'll get a penalty for slow play.

 

Golfers will then start to realise they need to get moving or get a penalty.

 

This system then allows the quick players, family man with commitments etc. to get in a round early at a better pace, and allows others to pace themselves without slowing up the whole field by taking the first tee slots each comp ...

 

Simple?

In theory - excellent, in practice - unlikely to succeed.

 

I keep coming back to a common theme...overcrowding. If groups are spaced too close then it wont make any difference as they will be waiting on virtually every tee. Groups need an open space to play into to keep moving smoothly.

 

Where I do my Marshaling, (2 tee starts) 8min intervals, the first group out on 1 is normally very fast and can often do less than 4 hours but they are always getting the hurry up from one (the same) player in the group behind. He thinks it's slow because the spacing is too close together and has to wait on many tees.

 

We recently trialed for 3 weekends, 8 min intervals for the first 6 groups out as they are usually quite quick, and then 9 min intervals for the next 6 groups out. The data collected showed a significant decrease in average round times, as groups were more spread out they were constantly moving and reduced waiting times on Par 3's. 

 

It's very simple to cure but clubs are not keen to space more as it limits the amount of members that can get a game.


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#44 BarnEsy05

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 08:59 AM

This.

 

I've said it before but most players that are culprits of slow play are hopeless at getting a move on "between shots".

 

Frequently i'm the last to tee off in a group but still easily the first one to walk off the tee.  What on earth the other guys are doing I don't know.

 

The same applies on the fairway (or in the trees for me). I've had to walk an extra 100m to my ball. Why am i reaching it 30 seconds before you've gotten to yours?

 

And it took me a while but i've finally got my regular Saturday group to stop carrying around the flagstick like it's sacred. Just leave it on the ground FFS.

What I witness constantly is if one player hits his ball into the scrub and has trouble finding it, all other players after reaching their ball, then move in to help look, even those way over on the other side of the fairway!

 

Really, only 2 in  group of 4 should be searching, especially if the others have no clue where it might be and if more want to look, play their shot first rather than walking to their ball, thinking about the shot then traipsing over to search then return to their ball to think about the shot again.


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2013 ISG National Championships...3rd Place 2nd Round - Moonah Links
2014 ISG National Championships...13th place...no other golfer could be that desperately unlucky 2 years in a row!

2015 ISG National Championships...21st place...that's farked

2016 ISG National Championships...waaaaay down the list.

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#45 BarnEsy05

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:02 AM

It depends, the rule is keep up with the group in front, so if both groups are slow then you can punish both.

I had this situation last Saturday. We were nearly a whole hole behind and I was aware of it, but we were well ahead of the group behind. The slow bloke in my group actually said "geez we're keeping good pace" and I told him we were actually behind and needed to play faster. He had no idea what was going on.

Rule of thumb maybe, not a rule of golf. 

 

Many have a lot to learn about etiquette but most are lost in their own little world and the game on the day is all about them.


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2015 ISG NSW WBT COC

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2013 ISG National Championships...13th place...now that's desperately unlucky

2013 ISG National Championships...3rd Place 2nd Round - Moonah Links
2014 ISG National Championships...13th place...no other golfer could be that desperately unlucky 2 years in a row!

2015 ISG National Championships...21st place...that's farked

2016 ISG National Championships...waaaaay down the list.

2016 ISG National Championships...2nd place Yarra Yarra Satellite Game 

2016 ISG National Championships...2nd place Huntingdale Satellite Game

2016 ISG National Championships...Captain of winning NSW Team, SOO.

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