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#16 Weetbix

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 12:48 PM

Of course Gaz

But there are an estimated 23000 people who are so known and most will never do anything

Locking up 23000 people on suspicion isn't how the country works or should work

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#17 OldBogey

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 02:57 PM

When everything is running smoothly and all are happy, church attendance is down.

Create mayhem and fear with some inexplicable terrorist chaos, and the masses (pun intended) will seek solace, comfort and guidance at their local religious haunt.

 

Get rid of all religions.  Then we'll only have power mongers and world poverty to conquer.



#18 GPJ_Longdriver

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 03:50 PM

Of course Gaz

But there are an estimated 23000 people who are so known and most will never do anything

Locking up 23000 people on suspicion isn't how the country works or should work

 

I agree Weeti, locking them up isn't the answer ....... I have one which would be much cheaper. :o


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#19 Weetbix

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 06:28 PM

I agree Weeti, locking them up isn't the answer ....... I have one which would be much cheaper. :o


You're a shocker Gaz!

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#20 Toph

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 09:06 PM

I wonder if in the days ahead in regard to the perpetrators, we will hear that well known phrase ..... that they were "known to authorities".

And there you go.

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#21 GPJ_Longdriver

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:15 AM

 

So they were known to the authorities .. so the question becomes, why didn't the authorities act?

 

Basically it would be due to having their hands tied from a legal standpoint I reckon.

 

There is no way a war on terrorism can ever be won, if the authorities have to wait until after the act before they can take action against these arseholes.

 

Why not at the very least, once they become known .... pick them up off the street, and disappear them for a month, during which time they are "questioned", and warned against acting on their impulses, lest harsh action be taken against both themselves, their colleagues, and their entire families.

 

I think that whilst the Germans were absolutely abhorrent in their actions both during the war and in the lead up to it,  they did manage to strike fear into the population at large, when people started to disappear off the streets, courtesy of their secret police.

 

Something along those lines in regard to these "known to the authorities" pricks, would go a long way towards putting the brakes on their activities I would imagine, as others of a like mind might think twice. (It certainly couldn't hurt) 


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#22 OldBogey

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 11:16 AM

So they were known to the authorities .. so the question becomes, why didn't the authorities act?

 

Basically it would be due to having their hands tied from a legal standpoint I reckon.

 

There is no way a war on terrorism can ever be won, if the authorities have to wait until after the act before they can take action against these arseholes.

 

Why not at the very least, once they become known .... pick them up off the street, and disappear them for a month, during which time they are "questioned", and warned against acting on their impulses, lest harsh action be taken against both themselves, their colleagues, and their entire families.

 

I think that whilst the Germans were absolutely abhorrent in their actions both during the war and in the lead up to it,  they did manage to strike fear into the population at large, when people started to disappear off the streets, courtesy of their secret police.

 

Something along those lines in regard to these "known to the authorities" pricks, would go a long way towards putting the brakes on their activities I would imagine, as others of a like mind might think twice. (It certainly couldn't hurt) 

 

It could work the other way, Gaz.

They might become incensed at being treated in that way and thus be more inclined to seek revenge at the authorities.



#23 manu99

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 11:57 AM

It could work the other way, Gaz.

They might become incensed at being treated in that way and thus be more inclined to seek revenge at the authorities.

 

I think it's not a one size fits all solution. Some of the potential jihadist could be scared off by threats and punitive actions. Punishment spread to other family members is one usually mentioned.

As OB said some may be more inclined to harbour resentment and seek revenge.

I think the government has some deterents at it's disposal, but seem unwilling or unable to use them.

Denying returning jihadist fighters entrance to Australia. Don't think that one has been used at all.

Deporting extremist. Hard if they are Australian citizens born overseas. Impossible if born here, but hey we could deport their whole families. :o

 

The overwhelming number of muslims are decent peaceful people, my opinion I don't have numbers from polling, I do not personally know any.

Some do support varying degrees of jihad.

Theses are the people that we need to get on side, include them in any discussions,, listen to their genuine grievances, but be prepared to upset some of the more PC brigade. No one seems worried about upsetting Christians, far from it Christians are fair game for any abuse going, deserved or not

Call a spade for what it is.

The jihadist that actually will do us harm are usually ex cons with massive drug and/or mental health problems.

These people will forever, in general, be dangerous and a threat to western democracies.

Prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Even increase sentences for terrorist related offences. Deport them where ever possible.

Don'r punish their families, when innocent, and don't punish the entire muslim population.



#24 GPJ_Longdriver

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 12:42 PM

I think it's not a one size fits all solution. Some of the potential jihadist could be scared off by threats and punitive actions. Punishment spread to other family members is one usually mentioned.

As OB said some may be more inclined to harbour resentment and seek revenge.

I think the government has some deterents at it's disposal, but seem unwilling or unable to use them.

Denying returning jihadist fighters entrance to Australia. Don't think that one has been used at all.

Deporting extremist. Hard if they are Australian citizens born overseas. Impossible if born here, but hey we could deport their whole families. :o

 

The overwhelming number of muslims are decent peaceful people, my opinion I don't have numbers from polling, I do not personally know any.

Some do support varying degrees of jihad.

Theses are the people that we need to get on side, include them in any discussions,, listen to their genuine grievances, but be prepared to upset some of the more PC brigade. No one seems worried about upsetting Christians, far from it Christians are fair game for any abuse going, deserved or not

Call a spade for what it is.

The jihadist that actually will do us harm are usually ex cons with massive drug and/or mental health problems.

These people will forever, in general, be dangerous and a threat to western democracies.

Prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Even increase sentences for terrorist related offences. Deport them where ever possible.

Don'r punish their families, when innocent, and don't punish the entire muslim population.

 

Those that are going to harbour resentment or seek revenge "for being picked up off the street" should be easy to determine at the time Courts rely on lie detectors don't they?), and then just a "tiny bit of prevention" is required by the authorities based on the outcome, again all done at the time.

 

Everyone bangs on about the "overwhelming number of decent Muslims" ... yet how many of these decent Muslims have in fact, dobbed in a "not so decent" one?

 

With such a closeted and closed society / religion, the authorities would have a hard time getting numbers on the inside .... yet we are hearing nothing about Muslim leaders dobbing in those known within their own religion to have radical or extremist views.

 

Perhaps if that were to occur (or to be seen to be occurring, more likely), then some of the "stigma" of actually being a Muslim in this day and age could well dissipate, if some were actually seen to be helping, rather than harbouring.

 

As for stronger sentences, that's an easy fix.

 

First streamline the court system for those convicted of terrorist related stuff, by removing those messy appeal process that they go on about all the time.

 

Then for any terrorist related activity, an actual act, or conspiracy to act, knowing and or abetting, consorting, etc ..... death penalty.


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#25 manu99

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 01:56 PM

 

Everyone bangs on about the "overwhelming number of decent Muslims" ... yet how many of these decent Muslims have in fact, dobbed in a "not so decent" one?

 

With such a closeted and closed society / religion, the authorities would have a hard time getting numbers on the inside .... yet we are hearing nothing about Muslim leaders dobbing in those known within their own religion to have radical or extremist views.

 

 

 

I think the security services get a hell of a lot of information from muslims about the rotten apples.

In many police press releases it's stated that they received information from the miscreants family, neighbours, immans, .

I'm sure not all muslims would dob in fellow muslim, but I think that's where the majority of tip offs come from. Again I have no proof of this, just reading the papers.

With the last three attacks, in England, police had been tipped of and warned on may occasions that the attackers posed a risk to the public at large.

The one in Australia, last night, was a ticking bomb, as was Mon Manis. Neither of them should have been on the streets.

 

I do agree with most of your options on this post, but I think the information, on terrorism, received from muslims is considerable.

I do think that the muslim community could do more to publicly condemn their rotten apples.

Some do, but many more are quiet on this. Maybe they don't want to draw attention to themselves from the jihadis


Edited by manu99, 06 June 2017 - 02:00 PM.


#26 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 02:03 PM

Those that are going to harbour resentment or seek revenge "for being picked up off the street" should be easy to determine at the time Courts rely on lie detectors don't they?), and then just a "tiny bit of prevention" is required by the authorities based on the outcome, again all done at the time.

 

Everyone bangs on about the "overwhelming number of decent Muslims" ... yet how many of these decent Muslims have in fact, dobbed in a "not so decent" one?

 

With such a closeted and closed society / religion, the authorities would have a hard time getting numbers on the inside .... yet we are hearing nothing about Muslim leaders dobbing in those known within their own religion to have radical or extremist views.

 

Perhaps if that were to occur (or to be seen to be occurring, more likely), then some of the "stigma" of actually being a Muslim in this day and age could well dissipate, if some were actually seen to be helping, rather than harbouring.

 

As for stronger sentences, that's an easy fix.

 

First streamline the court system for those convicted of terrorist related stuff, by removing those messy appeal process that they go on about all the time.

 

Then for any terrorist related activity, an actual act, or conspiracy to act, knowing and or abetting, consorting, etc ..... death penalty.

 

The muslims I know don't even go to church or whatever, and do regular things like drink and play golf.

They are not closed communities and they have no more or less insight in to radicalisation than any of us. 

It's the same as asking why Catholics don't dob in pedophile priests. 


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#27 GPJ_Longdriver

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 02:40 PM

It's the same as asking why Catholics don't dob in pedophile priests. 

 

And so they should.


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#28 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 02:42 PM

And so they should.

The vast majority wouldn't have known it was happening though, which was the point you conveniently forgot to address. 


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#29 Toph

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 05:46 PM

I think one very positive thing that has happened is general Muslim communities raising a big voice to say that these atrocities are not right. Over 130 Inmans have refused to give the London terrorists proper Muslim burial. That's huge. The Manchester terrorist were reported to authorities for extreme views by 4 Inmans. There have been Muslim rallies for peace and support in Manchester and London. This general Muslim show of rejection of this terror is what will make a big difference I feel. It's fantastic stuff.
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#30 GPJ_Longdriver

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 01:46 PM

The vast majority wouldn't have known it was happening though, which was the point you conveniently forgot to address. 

 

So the fact that priest and altar boy jokes have been going around for years never gave one church going member at any stage, a hint of concern?


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