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Dubious Local Rules.


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#31 languid

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 05:54 PM

Playing preferred lies all the time might be necessary if the Course doesn't have resources to have reasonably decent fairways.
My own Club has that in place too often.
In our case the rationale is marking the many individual areas that are really bad is beyond the COMMITTEE resources week in week out, so just mark the big GUR ones and let the Preferred Lies cope with the many smaller areas.
Major events it is play the ball as it lies and thorough Course GUR marking with substantial effort from Committee.
I guess this is typical for smaller regional Clubs.
One problem is habit. Players are constantly handling the ball, preferring lies when no need and when the Local Rule Is off the habit kicks in with penalties attached.
Last Club Championship one of our better players realised too late he had incurred a truckload of penalties.
A great guy he just copped it sweet.
Preferring lies slows down play and is against a fundamental principle...play the ball as it lies..
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#32 Li Ning

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:03 PM

I wouldn't do that to your greens. Seeing as it was just a social hit i picked up and dropped anyway.


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#33 Rsc41

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:22 PM

I knownTobias you are a true gentleman

 

No need for name calling. 


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#34 OldBogey

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:46 PM

No need for name calling.


Turfie keeps forgetting his own name.
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#35 Deege

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 08:28 PM

I understand preferred lies but I hate when we have winter preferred lies and everyone uses it to create a perfect lie when they actually don't need to take relief. I know that everyone can do it, but it just feels like exploiting the rule
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#36 OldBogey

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:54 PM

I understand preferred lies but I hate when we have winter preferred lies and everyone uses it to create a perfect lie when they actually don't need to take relief. I know that everyone can do it, but it just feels like exploiting the rule

 

Rules, and local rules, are there to be exploited.

Take every permitted advantage, some might save you a shot.



#37 languid

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 04:19 PM

I understand both points of view.

Exploit  has a few meanings, one of which suggests unfairness. 

If a player can reasonably get a better lie (in his opinion) according to a Rule that is okay. It is not unfair.

What annoys me is the constant handling of the ball when there is really no reason to place the ball in another lie. This is time-wasting and a bad habit.



#38 Deege

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 04:33 PM

I understand both points of view.

Exploit  has a few meanings, one of which suggests unfairness. 

If a player can reasonably get a better lie (in his opinion) according to a Rule that is okay. It is not unfair.

What annoys me is the constant handling of the ball when there is really no reason to place the ball in another lie. This is time-wasting and a bad habit.

 

I called it exploiting because I find it annoying when you are permitted preferred lies for eg winter conditions and you see people preferring their lie when they don't have mud on their ball and the lie is fine.  It seems to me inconsistent that you have to play out of a sand filled divot, but people are making themselves a perfect lie on the fairway under a local rule when they are not even disadvantaged.


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#39 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 04:35 PM

I called it exploiting because I find it annoying when you are permitted preferred lies for eg winter conditions and you see people preferring their lie when they don't have mud on their ball and the lie is fine.  It seems to me inconsistent that you have to play out of a sand filled divot, but people are making themselves a perfect lie on the fairway under a local rule when they are not even disadvantaged.

The good thing is, if there is preferred lies you can move the ball out of divots. 


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#40 languid

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 06:10 PM

I called it exploiting because I find it annoying when you are permitted preferred lies for eg winter conditions and you see people preferring their lie when they don't have mud on their ball and the lie is fine.  It seems to me inconsistent that you have to play out of a sand filled divot, but people are making themselves a perfect lie on the fairway under a local rule when they are not even disadvantaged.

I find your argument/position confusing.
The divot hole sand filled or not, is well discussed by the Rules people. Essentially play the Course as you find it.
I will try to post a reference on the RULING BODIES logic. It goes right back for decades.
If somebody has a lie that is "fine" does it matter if he decides to waste his time to find something which in his opinion is better?
I stick with the position that it is only time-wasting, which is to be deplored.
You can't write a Rule that differentiates between different levels of lie perfection. That is reality.
The sad thing is Preferred Lies are used by Committees too often and for too long.
It doesn't happen at well resourced golf Clubs.

#41 OldBogey

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 07:03 PM

I called it exploiting because I find it annoying when you are permitted preferred lies for eg winter conditions and you see people preferring their lie when they don't have mud on their ball and the lie is fine.  It seems to me inconsistent that you have to play out of a sand filled divot, but people are making themselves a perfect lie on the fairway under a local rule when they are not even disadvantaged.


But then they haven't gained any advantage either, so what's the problem?

#42 Deege

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:31 AM

You can't write a Rule that differentiates between different levels of lie perfection. That is reality.
The sad thing is Preferred Lies are used by Committees too often and for too long.
It doesn't happen at well resourced golf Clubs.

 

This is probably the best expression of my frustration.  We have preferred lies at the moment due to some bare patches on our fairways.  And then we are going to go into winter conditions.  And we are supposed to be a well-resourced club, so I find it a bit frustrating.  I know that they can be necessary and that you can't change the way that they operate, but I would just prefer we didn't need to do it.


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#43 languid

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 11:09 AM

It is hard to influence things unless you are on Match and Greens committees.

 

The Course Super would be unhappy, too.

 

There will be a reason for the bare patches. Probably an insect of a fungus the basic cause.

 

If well resourced it is possible to go with white paint and mark the patches GUR. However if it is widespread not practical. Maybe only some of the fairways could be subject of Temporary Local Rule.

 

You could be in for a lot of Preferred Lies for quite a while.  :(



#44 Deege

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 12:54 PM

It is hard to influence things unless you are on Match and Greens committees.

 

The Course Super would be unhappy, too.

 

There will be a reason for the bare patches. Probably an insect of a fungus the basic cause.

 

 

It was an over-application of weed treatment or something similar.  I don't know the details, but the suggestion is that the groundstaff made an error in trying to prepare the course for our busy season (we have our pro-am and a number of charity days in March).  As it caused damage and it is now winter, the fairways won't have a chance to recover properly until Spring.  Anyway that is the official story, but I expect that the groundstaff would have a more nuanced view if you asked them.


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#45 languid

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 03:25 PM

"It was an over-application of weed treatment or something similar.  I don't know the details, but the suggestion is that the groundstaff made an error in trying to prepare the course for our busy season ..."

This happens sometimes with dreadul consequences if  putting greens are involved.

No doubt there is an internal audit happening on procedures at the Greenkeepers facility.

If not, there should be.






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