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Lexi Thompson Penalised For Not Marking Ball Correctly


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#76 RulesGeek

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 01:01 AM

Exactly how can a player avoid submitting a wrong score after gaining a retrospective penalty?

 

She can't unless she's willing to withdraw in shame having been caught cheating. 

 

I wasn't in favor of the additional 2ps that the rules now apply for such penalties, btw.


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#77 languid

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 01:23 AM

She can't unless she's willing to withdraw in shame having been caught cheating. 
 
I wasn't in favor of the additional 2ps that the rules now apply for such penalties, btw.

The Committee's hands are are tied. It cannot reduce the penalty of 2 PS.
There is a case for changing this situation by changing Rule 33-7 to handle certain circumstances.
The furore and indignation of the LT case might see this happen. Possibly a change in the Draft for 2019 or more likely in the Handbook which will accompany the new Rules.
The Ruling Bodies have shown a remarkable interest in embracing change with the Draft Propsal.
There is a lot to like in the Draft and the attitude is refreshing.
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#78 RulesGeek

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 01:35 AM

The Committee's hands are are tied. It cannot reduce the penalty of 2 PS.
There is a case for changing this situation by changing Rule 33-7 to handle certain circumstances.
The furore and indignation of the LT case might see this happen. Possibly a change in the Draft for 2019 or more likely in the Handbook which will accompany the new Rules.
The Ruling Bodies have shown a remarkable interest in embracing change with the Draft Propsal.
There is a lot to like in the Draft and the attitude is refreshing.

 

I wasn't questioning the Committee's application of the rules.


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#79 languid

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 01:42 AM

I didn't think you were.
The purpose of the post was to suggest where the current case may lead.
Your comment indicates you would like to see change, in principle.
I would.

#80 RulesGeek

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 02:13 AM

I didn't think you were.
The purpose of the post was to suggest where the current case may lead.
Your comment indicates you would like to see change, in principle.
I would.

 

I argued against the change and would support reverting it.


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#81 AAA

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 02:55 AM

I argued against the change and would support reverting it.

To DQ?



#82 RulesGeek

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 03:14 AM

To DQ?

Yes.


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#83 AAA

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:44 AM

Thanks. I'm not leaning either way but as many on other forums seem to be suggesting that even now it is too draconian, what is your case?


Edited by AAA, 16 April 2017 - 06:46 AM.


#84 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:32 AM

Having to keep and sign a scorecard in a professional event is draconian. There aren't any other sports like that.

It's like asking a cricketer to give himself out or a bowler to call a no ball.

We have the technology available. Each group should have an observer that reports any instance of possible rules breaches to a referee for video referral and to keep score for the group. It's the only way to avoid this sort of thing.

#85 iRON MiCK

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 08:48 AM

Having to keep and sign a scorecard in a professional event is draconian. There aren't any other sports like that.

It's like asking a cricketer to give himself out or a bowler to call a no ball.

We have the technology available. Each group should have an observer that reports any instance of possible rules breaches to a referee for video referral and to keep score for the group. It's the only way to avoid this sort of thing.

Can you imagine how much time that would add to a PGA Tour Event.

 

"Ladies and Gentlemen we are waiting on the 8th Tee with Kevin Na and Jason Day, as the footage is reviewed of the last hole played, where Kevin, may or may not have taken, wait lets count them, 6 practice swings, per pre-shot routine, (that's before and after he checks his alignment on his approach shot) while Jason may or may not have incorrectly marked his ball on the green. We appreciate your patience and will be back after this 5 minute commercial break"

 

"Welcome back, and no Jason has not incorrectly marked his ball, but Kevin has been given a warning and may be put on the clock for taking 25 minutes to play the 7th, which he did in fact birdie, back to you Nick"


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#86 Shanks4ever

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 09:51 AM

If it can be proven the breach was deliberate, DQ, public shaming and a lengthy ban, if not apply the relevant penalty and not the scoring penalty. The onus should be on the player to prove their innocence.

 

Simon Dyson had a classic case of marking and tapping a spike in the 1 action and was lucky to receive a 2 month suspended sentence. Saltman similar to Lexi and was banned. Lexi lucky not to be banned. 


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#87 OldBogey

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 01:40 PM

And what about the top amateur or second tier pro events?

 

But there probably aren't enough highly qualified referees available in the local area. So they would have to be flown in and accommodated. Further, look at the various pro tour schedules, there are often multiple events on at the same time.

 

Only the top tiers get televised.

If reasonable remuneration was provided to suitably qualified referees, more might take it up.



#88 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 02:22 PM

Can you imagine how much time that would add to a PGA Tour Event.

"Ladies and Gentlemen we are waiting on the 8th Tee with Kevin Na and Jason Day, as the footage is reviewed of the last hole played, where Kevin, may or may not have taken, wait lets count them, 6 practice swings, per pre-shot routine, (that's before and after he checks his alignment on his approach shot) while Jason may or may not have incorrectly marked his ball on the green. We appreciate your patience and will be back after this 5 minute commercial break"

"Welcome back, and no Jason has not incorrectly marked his ball, but Kevin has been given a warning and may be put on the clock for taking 25 minutes to play the 7th, which he did in fact birdie, back to you Nick"


I've played with you, i can definitely imagine how slow it could get. Not sure it would though
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#89 AAA

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:07 PM

Only the top tiers get televised.

If reasonable remuneration was provided to suitably qualified referees, more might take it up.

With the number of tour events being played around the world, referees would have to be full time employees. They wouldn't work for a daily rate. Full time salary plus travel and hotel expenses. Who's going to pay? The pros won't take a pay cut.

 

And why? How many incidents are there in a year's golf.

 

Steamrollers and nuts come to mind.


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#90 pom

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:19 AM

Personally I would like to see the administrators of the game make it policy to ignore any rules infractions submitted by armchair experts ringing in, or at the most speak to the players after the event & let them know that they may have breached the rules.We are now seeing rules breaches reported with the use of ultra slow motion footage. This can only get worse as technology improves video equipment even further . I would suggest that in Lexi's case there is a problem with how she marks the ball & she needs to look at the process she uses but in some of the cases submitted by phone calls the breach has been so small that there was no way the player could know that they had infringed. Leave it to the Players & the rules officials to pick up breaches of the rules. If someone is caught blatantly cheating this can still be dealt with without affecting the competitions.I would suggest that there are still plenty of rules breaches that go unreported because nobody,including the players involved, see them.


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