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Bonnie Doon Golf Club Membership Review


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#31 Katsuhiro Miura

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 06:50 PM

Play with Miura irons and every great hole will be.

#32 chevychase

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:40 PM

What do you like about the hole?
 
The narrow chute off the tee or the bunkers on the outside of the dogleg?


I like the fact that it requires a specific shot off the tee - a power fade for a right-hander, and the options various pin placements provide for rewarding second shot placement. I also like the drama it potentially creates as the final hole of the Masters. But Shanks you've obviously played it so I'll defer to your educated opinion.

#33 Shanks4ever

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 08:01 PM

I like the fact that it requires a specific shot off the tee - a power fade for a right-hander, and the options various pin placements provide for rewarding second shot placement. I also like the drama it potentially creates as the final hole of the Masters. But Shanks you've obviously played it so I'll defer to your educated opinion.

My knowledge comes from the TV like you I suspect. The other poster with the same opinion as me is far more qualified and may well have played the hole or at least been there. 

 

So if you can't hit a power fade what is your option? Good holes normally have options for different players.

 

Access to pin placements on good holes should be a result of where the tee shot lands. If you challenge the hazard (bunker) your second shot should be easier. In this case it is not. The further right you can power fade it the better the approach shot except for perhaps the back right pin.

 

A 120 metre par 3 with an island green would create more drama, that doesn't make it a good hole.


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#34 Happy_Dude

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 08:17 PM

The chute is way too narrow. The bunkers on the outside. And if you haven't seen it the second shot is up an amazingly steep hill.

It's not a horrible hole by any means - but it's far from great. If it wasn't the last hole at Augusta no one ever would have heard of it - exactly the same as 18 at Royal Sydney.

 

This isn't a very logical thing to say.  It would apply to the other 17 too, wouldn't it?

 

My point is that the drama can happen there because, amongst other things, it's a good hole.

 

The 18th at St Andrews, for example, tends to be a bit anticlimatic.


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#35 Happy_Dude

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 08:28 PM

My knowledge comes from the TV like you I suspect. The other poster with the same opinion as me is far more qualified and may well have played the hole or at least been there. 

 

So if you can't hit a power fade what is your option? Good holes normally have options for different players.

 

Access to pin placements on good holes should be a result of where the tee shot lands. If you challenge the hazard (bunker) your second shot should be easier. In this case it is not. The further right you can power fade it the better the approach shot except for perhaps the back right pin.

 

A 120 metre par 3 with an island green would create more drama, that doesn't make it a good hole.

 

There are plenty of options.  Lay up short of the bunker.  Hit it into the bunker and Sandy Lyle it.  Woosie it way left down 9.  Play for the right side of the fairway, or belt the power fade past the bunker.  Good holes reward the risk and the power fade is the risky shot (ie challenging the hazards, as you put it), because if it doesn't fade you're in the bunker.  Overplay it right and you're dead.

 

I've convinced me; it's a great hole.


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#36 Happy_Dude

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:02 PM

In one word NO

 

I will expand to support NO. The measure of a good hole is not professional tournament golf given they play it 4 times once very few years. It is how it plays for the members week in week out.

 

If narrow tree lined doglegs are your thing then in it is magnificent.

 

I'm not sure "how it plays" is an actual thing.  I thought we were discussing it's merits, or otherwise.

 

For mine, the hole offers up enough challenges - through design, use of topography, hazard placement, etc, to make it a good hole.  The fact that the pro's play it is neither here nor there, but when they do, something exciting always seems to happen there.  That may not happen as often if it wasn't a good hole.


I am not interested in your blog.


#37 chevychase

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:02 PM

 
I've convinced me; it's a great hole.


I'm with you happy dude!

#38 Shanks4ever

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:10 PM

I'm not sure "how it plays" is an actual thing.  I thought we were discussing it's merits, or otherwise.

 

For mine, the hole offers up enough challenges - through design, use of topography, hazard placement, etc, to make it a good hole.  The fact that the pro's play it is neither here nor there, but when they do, something exciting always seems to happen there.  That may not happen as often if it wasn't a good hole.

How it plays is the only objective way to measure its merits. Does the hole provide options?

 

The 18th hole in tournament golf will always be exciting if it is close regardless of the merit of the hole. 



#39 Shanks4ever

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:13 PM

There are plenty of options.  Lay up short of the bunker.  Hit it into the bunker and Sandy Lyle it.  Woosie it way left down 9.  Play for the right side of the fairway, or belt the power fade past the bunker.  Good holes reward the risk and the power fade is the risky shot (ie challenging the hazards, as you put it), because if it doesn't fade you're in the bunker.  Overplay it right and you're dead.

 

I've convinced me; it's a great hole.

335 yards to carry the bunkers, good luck on that as a strategy. Just to the right of the bunker is not the best line in to most pins, it is the far right of the fairway. ie the hazard you need to challenge is the trees on the right 

 

Bunkering on the outside of doglegs is rarely strategic.



#40 chevychase

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:32 PM

335 yards to carry the bunkers, good luck on that as a strategy. Just to the right of the bunker is not the best line in to most pins, it is the far right of the fairway. ie the hazard you need to challenge is the trees on the right 
 
Bunkering on the outside of doglegs is rarely strategic.


I heard Tony Cashmore is looking for an offsider - you should throw your hat in the ring!

#41 Shanks4ever

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 10:16 PM

I heard Tony Cashmore is looking for an offsider - you should throw your hat in the ring!

That is insightful.


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#42 Happy_Dude

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:13 AM

335 yards to carry the bunkers, good luck on that as a strategy. Just to the right of the bunker is not the best line in to most pins, it is the far right of the fairway. ie the hazard you need to challenge is the trees on the right 

 

Bunkering on the outside of doglegs is rarely strategic.

So the hole would be strategically better, whatever that means, if the bunker wasn't there?  It would be a much easier hole if they weren't.  Either side of the fairway offers good lines to the pins.  It just depends on where they are.  Plenty of options, you see.

 

I think bunkers on the outside of doglegs is not strategic only when there isn't something to be avoided on the inside.  In this case, they take the long left side drive out of play, and draws the attention to the right side. What's not strategic about that?


I am not interested in your blog.


#43 Shanks4ever

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:01 PM

So the hole would be strategically better, whatever that means, if the bunker wasn't there?  It would be a much easier hole if they weren't.  Either side of the fairway offers good lines to the pins.  It just depends on where they are.  Plenty of options, you see.

 

I think bunkers on the outside of doglegs is not strategic only when there isn't something to be avoided on the inside.  In this case, they take the long left side drive out of play, and draws the attention to the right side. What's not strategic about that?

 

There were no fairway bunkers until 1967. 

 

Sounds like Chevy and you should consult to Augusta on any future changes. 



#44 chevychase

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 07:18 PM

There were no fairway bunkers until 1967.

So what's your point Alister MacKenzie?

Edited by chevychase, 13 May 2017 - 07:19 PM.


#45 Shanks4ever

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:37 AM

So what's your point Alister MacKenzie?

It is not a great hole and has not been improved with the fairway bunkering,

 

I thought I and another poster made that clear. 


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