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Match Play In Daily Comp Ruling


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#31 ColinCL

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 05:25 PM

That's how it should be. Handicap Match play is a lottery.

Silly of me to ask, I expect, but how do you justify calling handicap match play a lottery?  For example, on what statistical basis do you come to that conclusion?



#32 AAA

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 05:35 PM

That's how it should be. Handicap Match play is a lottery.

And gross matchplay is a foregone conclusion.


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#33 BumpunRun

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 05:44 PM

Silly of me to ask, I expect, but how do you justify calling handicap match play a lottery? For example, on what statistical basis do you come to that conclusion?

That there is a difference in the possibility of being able to manipulate your handicap and your scratch ability.

One shot can win or lose you a match and if that single shot has been achieved through manipulation of a handicap that there is a problem.

I can only assume the lottery reference is based on the accuracy of a handicap compared to their actual ability.
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#34 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 05:58 PM

More so the fact that you get a handicap by playing in individual competitions. You don't have a match play handicap.

Match play removes the effect of blowout holes, giving an advantage to higher handicapers who have then more often.
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#35 Goldy

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 07:49 PM

I feel like my extreme levels of crapulence are such an advantage.

You scratchies should be shitting yourselves right about now.
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#36 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 07:51 PM

I feel like my extreme levels of crapulence are such an advantage.

You scratchies should be shitting yourselves right about now.


Yeah but then you'll hit a driver to 3 feet on a long par 3 😉
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#37 Goldy

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 07:53 PM

Yeah but then you'll hit a driver to 3 feet on a long par 3


What's your point... :-)

Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
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Goldlink


#38 Goldy

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 07:54 PM

Yeah but then you'll hit a driver to 3 feet on a long par 3


And sometimes to a not so long one as well.
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Winner Moonah Legends 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner The National 2013 ISG Nationals | Winner 4BBB 2013 ISG Nationals
Winner Stink's 3 Club Challenge 2015 | Winner C grade OOM The Sands 2016

Hole-in-one Growling Frog 14/1/17 5th hole 137m TM RBZ 5 hybrid / Srixon AD333 ball | Growling Frog GC Matchplay Champion 2017

Other, less impressive stuff...(I know...it's marginal...)
R/Up ISG Nationals 2013 | C Grade LD Growling Frog 8/2/14, 11th hole, TM R1, HOF Patriot shaft, testicles of steel | NTP 2nd hole Kooindah Waters 2014 ISG Nationals

3 Birdies in one round The Glades 2015 ISG Nationals | R/Up 4BBB 2015 ISG Nationals | NTP 16th hole Growling Frog OOM 2017

Low Handicap point 12.7 9/4/16

Finally...and most importantly...
Smoldy....when only the best will do.
Goldlink


#39 ColinCL

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 09:27 PM

That there is a difference in the possibility of being able to manipulate your handicap and your scratch ability.

One shot can win or lose you a match and if that single shot has been achieved through manipulation of a handicap that there is a problem.

I can only assume the lottery reference is based on the accuracy of a handicap compared to their actual ability.

If a handicap is being manipulated you are introducing cheating by an individual  as a factor in a particular match.  Generalising from that to saying  that match play is a lottery is a leap far too far.

 

Manipulation apart, if the outcome of a match hinges on a single stroke, does that not indicate that the contest was very closely fought and that the handicapping has evidently worked?


Edited by ColinCL, 12 March 2017 - 09:29 PM.


#40 pom

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:04 AM

That does not fully satisfy GA's requirement.

 

(a) Match Play Index

One of the main factors that should be taken into consideration is that the very early or very late holes should not be assigned to a low Stroke Index. The reason being that if a game were to finish all square and the players were required to go on to the 19th and subsequent holes to determine the winner, a player in receipt of very few strokes would gain an unfair advantage if he were to receive a stroke at the 19th or 20th. Similarly, if a low Stroke Index were assigned to a hole at the very end of the round, a player in receipt of very few strokes may not have the opportunity to use them as the game may be over by that stage. In general, therefore, Stroke Index 1 to 4 should not be on holes 1, 2, 17 or 18. The other important factor to be taken into account in fixing the order of the Stroke Index is that strokes should be fairly spread out over the 18 holes.

While that may well be correct the post was in reaction to a post by OB about pennant. Pennant is only played over 18 holes  after which the match is halved. which means there is no concern about having to play on through 19 etc.

  The point about not using stroke index is well displayed by our home course where if you played M/play off the stroke index and had to go to the 19th hole and beyond. If you had a 6 shot advantage you would get 4 of them in the 1st 5 holes.


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#41 BarnEsy05

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:03 AM

I'm not a fan of matches being played during a regular comp round. It happens at a venue where I frequent and is a big contributor slow play...we are playing a match so through necessity we will be slow." 

 

If you are playing a match you still have the obligation to keep up with the group ahead.


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#42 OldBogey

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:05 PM

While that may well be correct the post was in reaction to a post by OB about pennant. Pennant is only played over 18 holes  after which the match is halved. which means there is no concern about having to play on through 19 etc.
  The point about not using stroke index is well displayed by our home course where if you played M/play off the stroke index and had to go to the 19th hole and beyond. If you had a 6 shot advantage you would get 4 of them in the 1st 5 holes.


That would be relevant if your match started on the first hole.
I recently had a match where I had to give one shot - on the 18th hole. As we started our match on 12, it didn't matter.

#43 BumpunRun

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

That would be relevant if your match started on the first hole.
I recently had a match where I had to give one shot - on the 18th hole. As we started our match on 12, it didn't matter.

I think I saw something earlier that explains a pretty simple way of working out when you should give your shots based on the match index if you don't start on the first 

 

Using the standard match index, the 8th hole you play is the first hole on which a stroke is allowed, followed by 12th and 4th.  

 

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#44 OldBogey

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:26 PM

I think I saw something earlier that explains a pretty simple way of working out when you should give your shots based on the match index if you don't start on the first


Ok Bumpy, you have to give 7 shots and you start on the 14th.
Which holes?

#45 AAA

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:40 AM

Surely if you are not starting on the normal 1st you simply shuffle the indices along to tally with your start point.

ie use the index for your first hole as the index of the course first hole.






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