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#16 pom

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 05:53 PM

Yes, but you have a choice under the existing rules. In practicality, there is little difference except the 'replay' option would be a known (good or bad) in lieu of an unknown.

The fact that you already have a ball sitting in the fairway may well affect the choice that you make re the original ball. As far as I am concerned players should not have an option of deciding which ball they wish to play. Given that choice I can imagine the situation that AAA was suggestion where players would be hitting provisionals because they did not like the original shot. So hit a provisional & then go & look to see which is the better option.


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#17 AAA

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 06:04 PM

I have seen a few cases where another player or caddy has spotted a ball really in the **** but needs to be lifted to be identified. Player has declared first ball lost without checking and proceeded with provisional. What's the case on that one ?

OB is correct. The player must identify it. If it is his he must 'abandon' the provisional.

 

Decision 27-2c/2

 

http://www.usga.org/...ion-27,d27-2c-2



#18 AAA

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 06:07 PM

Yes, but you have a choice under the existing rules. In practicality, there is little difference except the 'replay' option would be a known (good or bad) in lieu of an unknown.

What choice? You cannot to continue with the provisional if you think it is nicer that the original.



#19 OldBogey

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 07:04 PM

What choice? You cannot to continue with the provisional if you think it is nicer that the original.


Of course you have a choice. Decide your original is unplayable. Under the existing rules, one of the unplayable options is to replay from the same place as the previous shot. All I'm suggesting is that the rules could require a provisional, if played, to be used instead returning to the tee or wherever. It would speed up play.

Your earlier suggestion that more provisionals would be played is highly unlikely.

#20 AAA

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 07:45 PM

Of course you have a choice. Decide your original is unplayable. Under the existing rules, one of the unplayable options is to replay from the same place as the previous shot. All I'm suggesting is that the rules could require a provisional, if played, to be used instead returning to the tee or wherever. It would speed up play.

 

1) The significant difference is that in one case you have the choice of two known situations, in the other one outcome is unknown. The player has already hit one duff shot. 50/50 that he hits another. 



#21 FairwayBomber

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 01:31 PM

Just play another ball from the tee without saying "provisional".  It's all over - quite simple.

 

Sorry if this is a silly question...but I read this as saying if you don't declare your second shot off the tee is a provisional ball, then you could hit the resulting second tee shot if you declare the first shot as unplayable?


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#22 pom

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 01:36 PM

If you hit a second ball off the tee without calling it a provisional it immediatly becomes the ball in play & you have played 3 shots.

 The original ball is out of play.


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#23 OldBogey

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 03:01 PM

Sorry if this is a silly question...but I read this as saying if you don't declare your second shot off the tee is a provisional ball, then you could hit the resulting second tee shot if you declare the first shot as unplayable?


And if you then continued play with the first ball, you are playing a wrong ball from a wrong place.

#24 rogolf

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 04:05 PM

And if you then continued play with the first ball, you are playing a wrong ball from a wrong place.

 

You're right - playing the original ball would be playing a wrong ball and result in a penalty for playing a wrong ball - where it is played from is irrelevant.

Maybe you can tell me how a wrong ball could be played from a right place?



#25 FairwayBomber

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 06:13 PM

If you hit a second ball off the tee without calling it a provisional it immediatly becomes the ball in play & you have played 3 shots.

 The original ball is out of play.

that was what i thought as well. thanks

 

it just sounded to me like you could somehow choose whether you want to hit from the first or second tee shot.


No one tells my caddy Kiwi that he is a f#$%^*g pr1ck!!


#26 AAA

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 06:31 PM

The issue got a bit confused when rogolf suggested that Old Bogey may say that is what the rule should be. And he did!


Edited by AAA, 13 December 2016 - 06:34 PM.


#27 OldBogey

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 09:07 PM

You're right - playing the original ball would be playing a wrong ball and result in a penalty for playing a wrong ball - where it is played from is irrelevant.
Maybe you can tell me how a wrong ball could be played from a right place?


If it's wrongly substituted.

#28 OldBogey

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 09:08 PM

The issue got a bit confused when rogolf suggested that Old Bogey may say that is what the rule should be. And he did!


The rules can be confusing to some.

#29 KAVL

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 09:44 PM

If it's wrongly substituted.

 

If a player substitutes a ball when not permitted to do so under the Rules (including an unintentional substitution when a wrong ball is dropped or placed by the player), that substituted ball is not a wrong ball; it becomes the ball in play.






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